Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[StAndrew7]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

Looking forward to hear more about how we're about to move to a 2000 seater stadium in Abernethy while our new owner builds a super-mansion at McDiarmid and saddles us with £20m of debt.

Well if it's not going to happen for you, it'll definitely be Barmack selling Fir Park and building us a soulless shed on the old Ravenscraig site.

[RandomGuy.]

42 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

Well if it's not going to happen for you, it'll definitely be Barmack selling Fir Park and building us a soulless shed on the old Ravenscraig site.

Is he just like that then?

Seems convinced the empty land near McDiarmid is some hidden flaw and will f**k us, when the reality is it's earmarked for a "community hub" which will be built and owned by the "Saints in the community" organisation, and funded by the sale of the club (Geoff Brown is handing the proceeds from the sale to them so they can afford it).

[camer0n_mcd]

Max Johnston won the Austrian cup tonight, didn't get off the bench unfortunately.

[Jastons6]

Kevin Van Veen, 10 games and 0 goals for Kilmarnock. We dodged a bullet in January.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Is he just like that then?

Seems convinced the empty land near McDiarmid is some hidden flaw and will f**k us, when the reality is it's earmarked for a "community hub" which will be built and owned by the "Saints in the community" organisation, and funded by the sale of the club (Geoff Brown is handing the proceeds from the sale to them so they can afford it).

 

Don't St Johstone has some weird covenant on the land/stadium?

How much of the land around the stadium do the club own? is the whole site bound by the new road? It does seem like there is a good opportunity to build houses up at the top end of the site.

What would a community hub entail? Like some changing rooms and hall for the pitches behind the stand?

[RandomGuy.]

13 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

 

Don't St Johstone has some weird covenant on the land/stadium?

How much of the land around the stadium do the club own? is the whole site bound by the new road? It does seem like there is a good opportunity to build houses up at the top end of the site.

What would a community hub entail? Like some changing rooms and hall for the pitches behind the stand?

There seems to be some myth that Bruce McDiarmid granting the land to Saints about 40 years ago  was some blood oath that it's only there for football. It's just land the club owns. By all accounts they own land at other sites too.

As far as I'm aware the new road is a good boundary, aye. There's a massive chunk of land that's hidden by bushes that has nothing on it. They've got planning permission for flats and have done for years, but it's looked at as perfect for a "community hub".

It'll likely just be a mini sports centre. Saints in the Community currently host a huge amount of training sessions throughout the week for a variety of age groups at the stadium, but the indoor part is limited. Presumably they'd plan to build a bigger indoor pitch for that. They've talked about wanting a place to provide more community based projects that aren't just "kick a ball about too", so it might provide them room for classrooms.

Edited May 1 by RandomGuy.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

There seems to be some myth that Bruce McDiarmid granting the land to Saints about 40 years ago  was some blood oath that it's only there for football. It's just land the club owns. By all accounts they own land at other sites too.

As far as I'm aware the new road is a good boundary, aye. There's a massive chunk of land that's hidden by bushes that has nothing on it. They've got planning permission for flats and have done for years, but it's looked at as perfect for a "community hub".

It'll likely just be a mini sports centre. Saints in the Community currently host a huge amount of training sessions throughout the week for a variety of age groups at the stadium, but the indoor part is limited. Presumably they'd plan to build a bigger indoor pitch for that. They've talked about wanting a place to provide more community based projects that aren't just "kick a ball about too", so it might provide them room for classrooms.

You can attach covenants to land for usage. It is not unheard of. Need to get John Brown down to demand to see The Deeds. Not to take Stuart Cosgrove as gospel but there was a segment one time on Off the Ball about sponsor names for grounds and he said Saintees could ot change the name as part of the agreement when the land was transferred so it seems Farmer McDiarmid was thinking ahead.

The land around McDiarmid must be worth a tidy amount now. The sprawl of Perth has moved right out to the A9 with development even starting on the other side. Selling the currently vacant land for development seems like a good way to generate some cash. With all the houses built round about it is strange that the nothing has been built on your patch.

Would you be surprised if there was a clause that limited it to recreational use? And if there are no restrictions then the value of the club must be massively boosted by having all that space.

Accounting the value of the stadium is a big deal for me in the proposed take over of motherwell. Selling out to some American puts the future of Fir Park at risk.

 

 

[thisGRAEME]

11 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

As far as I'm aware the new road is a good boundary, aye. There's a massive chunk of land that's hidden by bushes that has nothing on it. They've got planning permission for flats and have done for years, but it's looked at as perfect for a "community hub".

It'll likely just be a mini sports centre. Saints in the Community currently host a huge amount of training sessions throughout the week for a variety of age groups at the stadium, but the indoor part is limited. Presumably they'd plan to build a bigger indoor pitch for that. They've talked about wanting a place to provide more community based projects that aren't just "kick a ball about too", so it might provide them room for classrooms.

This is class, btw. Love that.

[capt_oats]

14 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Is he just like that then?

Seems convinced the empty land near McDiarmid is some hidden flaw and will f**k us, when the reality is it's earmarked for a "community hub" which will be built and owned by the "Saints in the community" organisation, and funded by the sale of the club (Geoff Brown is handing the proceeds from the sale to them so they can afford it).

Pretty much, aye. Don't feel special. 

As @StAndrew7 said, any time I've dipped into Steelmen recently there's been the same sort of energy about Barmack and it's been similar with other topics before that. Whether it's the WS, Burrows, Alexander...whatever.

Like, don't get me wrong, a degree of scepticism is healthy but often when you see folk having a dig at SO this is why. You've got folk thinking "St Johnstone fans should be worried about this" without anyone having any sort of idea about the detail, it's just a default position.

Broadly it's no different to any other single club forum but when you have folk digging their heels in relentlessly regardless of whether there's any actual supporting evidence to their position or not...it's fucking exhausting tbqhwy.

[well fan for life]

5 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

You've got folk thinking "St Johnstone fans should be worried about this" without anyone having any sort of idea about the detail, it's just a default position.

Broadly it's no different to any other single club forum but when you have folk digging their heels in relentlessly regardless of whether there's any actual supporting evidence to their position or not...it's fucking exhausting tbqhwy.

Identical story about us and Barmack. Folk on Steelmen Online/here/social media plucking supposed figures out their arse and telling us we're doomed. Exhausting.

[Eliphas Pettigrew]

26 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Pretty much, aye. Don't feel special. 

As @StAndrew7 said, any time I've dipped into Steelmen recently there's been the same sort of energy about Barmack and it's been similar with other topics before that. Whether it's the WS, Burrows, Alexander...whatever.

Like, don't get me wrong, a degree of scepticism is healthy but often when you see folk having a dig at SO this is why. You've got folk thinking "St Johnstone fans should be worried about this" without anyone having any sort of idea about the detail, it's just a default position.

Broadly it's no different to any other single club forum but when you have folk digging their heels in relentlessly regardless of whether there's any actual supporting evidence to their position or not...it's fucking exhausting tbqhwy.

Its difficult to see what single pleasure some of the 'usual suspects' on Steelmen Online get out of life.

They hoover up any single strand of positivity on just about anything 

[Al B]

2 minutes ago, Eliphas Pettigrew said:

Steelmen Online

I'm doing it....I'm going to have look...

[Eliphas Pettigrew]

6 minutes ago, Al B said:

I'm doing it....I'm going to have look...

[Swello]

12 hours ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

Accounting the value of the stadium is a big deal for me in the proposed take over of motherwell. Selling out to some American puts the future of Fir Park at risk.

Has the guy got any history buying and selling land in his line of business? (genuine question).

One thing I've always been sceptical about (more widely, not just us) - if buying and selling land for profit was your business plan, why in the name of f**k would you complicate your life by putting a top flight football club in the middle of your deal? There are lots of pieces of land about, and most of them don't come with a bunch of rabid lunatics opposing your every move and all the negative publicity and hassle that goes with it. If you wanted to make a return on land development, it would be one of the very worst ways to go about it.

[Handsome_Devil]

4 minutes ago, Swello said:

One thing I've always been sceptical about (more widely, not just us) - if buying and selling land for profit was your business plan, why in the name of f**k would you complicate your life by putting a top flight football club in the middle of your deal? There are lots of pieces of land about, and most of them don't come with a bunch of rabid lunatics opposing your every move and all the negative publicity and hassle that goes with it. If you wanted to make a return on land development, it would be one of the very worst ways to go about it.

I'm also sceptical about handing over the keys to FP to EB or anyone else but this is a good point and it's also a massive complication in what our, or any club, is worth. Yes, you can write down X million value for the ground on your balance sheet but someone will only buy it if they know they can build on it - and the prospect of turning McDiarmid, Fir Park or any other stadium into flats or a supermarket against the wishes of the fans because a foreign owner is going rogue is, though not impossible, realistically pretty remote.

The bigger danger of any investor is that they get fed up of their toy, neglect it and start draining it of cash... going totally bust is unlikely but it'll still be incredibly miserable if it goes wrong. 

[StAndrew7]

13 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I'm also sceptical about handing over the keys to FP to EB or anyone else but this is a good point and it's also a massive complication in what our, or any club, is worth. Yes, you can write down X million value for the ground on your balance sheet but someone will only buy it if they know they can build on it - and the prospect of turning McDiarmid, Fir Park or any other stadium into flats or a supermarket against the wishes of the fans because a foreign owner is going rogue is, though not impossible, realistically pretty remote.

The bigger danger of any investor is that they get fed up of their toy, neglect it and start draining it of cash... going totally bust is unlikely but it'll still be incredibly miserable if it goes wrong. 

Aye, I think your last point is key here; which is why I think it's imperative that any deal which is agreed has safeguarding(s) in it. e.g. the WS to have first refusal/options on shares purchased which take any investor into majority ownership for the price they bought them at, or at least to refund their total investment to relinquish the shares back to the WS.

If the investment proves to be a success, any money raised by the WS over and above the agreed value of those shares (I would expect the WS to keep that ring fenced should the worst happen), could then still be used to support the club whilst it isn't the majority owner. I'm not sure how many members would continue to contribute towards it if that were what it were to turn into, though. I know a few have said (either on here or on SO) they'd stop their contributions.

[MurrayWell]

Convinced there are folk in the Motherwell fansbase who thrive off of misery, negative stance at every opportunity. Players written off after 20 minutes, managers to be sacked after a couple of shite results, Well Society labelled as a failure with not much to back it up, but also any new investors not to be trusted and not the direction either, even when results are going well it's still not good enough. Get a buzz out of being the most negative, energy sapping person in the room. 

For the What We Do In The Shadows fans, a bunch of Colin Robinsons (although at least he has good patter). 

[Pettigrew]

1 hour ago, MurrayWell said:

Convinced there are folk in the Motherwell fansbase who thrive off of misery, negative stance at every opportunity. Players written off after 20 minutes, managers to be sacked after a couple of shite results, Well Society labelled as a failure with not much to back it up, but also any new investors not to be trusted and not the direction either, even when results are going well it's still not good enough. Get a buzz out of being the most negative, energy sapping person in the room. 

For the What We Do In The Shadows fans, a bunch of Colin Robinsons (although at least he has good patter). 

100%.  Guy behind me at Dens was berating Bair after the penalty miss - "just reminding us how shite he really is" etc and then therefore couldn't bring himself to celebrate his goal 2 mins later as a result.  

[JamesP_81]

10 minutes ago, Pettigrew said:

100%.  Guy behind me at Dens was berating Bair after the penalty miss - "just reminding us how shite he really is" etc and then therefore couldn't bring himself to celebrate his goal 2 mins later as a result.  

Best I've heard recently was at FP a few weeks ago and the guy behind me was relentless in his negativity about Miller . " Folk are deluding themselves if they think we've got a player on our hands here " , " the boy needs to stop believing his own hype and learn how to pass a baw" , " the club are in trouble if we need to get big money for him " . I mean I know that he's nowhere near the finished player and can blow hot and cold but that is some next level negativity there . I bet that guy plays the lottery every week just so he can complain about never winning it ! 

[thisGRAEME]

35 minutes ago, Pettigrew said:

100%.  Guy behind me at Dens was berating Bair after the penalty miss - "just reminding us how shite he really is" etc and then therefore couldn't bring himself to celebrate his goal 2 mins later as a result.  

I love these guys so much. Leaving Dens with the score at 2-2 in their world must've been shite for them as everyone else got to leaving knowing it was 2-3.