Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[jamamafegan]

Tbf 1000 at £5 = £5k
You'd only need more than 220 attending at £23 to make more money by charging more.

Fans make football. In your world you would rather there were 300 fans in the away end at McDiarmid because “moRe mOneY fOr thE cLuB.” In my world I’d rather we made football more affordable for people because it’s fair, it would create a better atmosphere and you get better value for money. Even if Saints lose a few quid by doing it. I’m perfectly okay with that.

I imagine fans who are going to buy that stuff will be anyway.
It's an utter dreamland that folk live in if they expect clubs to cut their matchday income and continue to keep fans. Folk will always find an excuse to do something else if they're that way inclined.
Jamma simultaneously demands clubs catch up with Celtic and Rangers while cutting their own main income stream. As you'd have to absolutely slash season ticket prices if you allowed £5 entry to every game.

I’ve never said we should make every game a fiver. I have said that all clubs in Scotland should reduce ticket prices to make football more affordable because Scottish football is currently very poor value for money.

I think it’s great when clubs do the fiver initiative - one because it’s great for the fans and two because I know that RandomGuy is going to be a seething mess about it.

[RandomGuy.]

20 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

In my world I’d rather we made football more affordable for people because it’s fair, it would create a better atmosphere and you get better value for money. Even if Saints lose a few quid by doing it. I’m perfectly okay with that.

 

Well that's fine, as long as you accept the standard of player would drop massively.

If the club charged £5 entry they'd have to charge about £85 for season tickets.

We'd have a full ground, potentially, but would be down around £1m even if we doubled the amount of fans, before the season even started.

What price do you find acceptable?

You're a dreamer, and that's fine. But I'd rather go to Saints games and watch a good team than go and watch fucking dross play, having an extra 3000 folk in the ground isn't worth that trade off for me.

Edited February 21, 2022 by RandomGuy.

[Valentino Bolognese]

1 hour ago, Theyellowbox said:

It's a good point and even if you assume each person buys say a pie

The only folk buying a pie at Easter Road are the ones that have never bought a pie at Easter Road. 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Valentino Bolognese

[nelsjfc]

Kucheriavyi signs for Kelty until the end of the season. Good test for him.

[jamamafegan]

You're a dreamer

But I’m not the only one. I hope someday you’ll join us.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

1 hour ago, jamamafegan said:

 

But I’m not the only one. I hope someday you’ll join us.

 

RandomGuy would rather sit on his own so he can do his wee gimpy stats in peace. Each to their own I suppose.

[RandomGuy.]

37 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

RandomGuy would rather sit on his own so he can do his wee gimpy stats in peace. Each to their own I suppose.

*shrugs*

I'd rather see a good St Johnstone side with good players beside 4000 Saints fans than a League One standard outfit beside 8000, tbh.

For folk who only go for a wee sing and dance I can see why they think different, but this idea theres tens of thousands of regular fans around the Country not going to games over £10 is fanciful/deluded.

[Zamora Fan]

Doesn’t have to be £5 every game - tho one off initiatives like this are great, build a buzz and get new fans (potential future money spenders) along - but would there be a big financial drop off if we went to £20 max across the decent non bigot teams in the league? With a big publicity scheme accompanying any such agreement I’m not sure, you’d reach more fans who feel priced out and maybe people who feel they have to pick and choose games (I’m one of those fwiw) because of money would feel they can afford to go more often.

And if there are losses we can make them back by charging Celtgers hordes £40 and letting them have 3 stands. Imagine the tears.

[tree house tam]

Clubs  charge what they want. Why should the likes of Hearts, who can actually sell out their ground now and again, lower their prices to suit the rest? Especially  when it could be detrimental to the playing budget?

They shouldn't, they won't, move on.

[RandomGuy.]

4 hours ago, Zamora Fan said:

would there be a big financial drop off if we went to £20 max across the decent non bigot teams in the league? 

You honestly think there's folk who want to go to games regularly, but aren't, over £3?

[Derry Alli]

4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

You honestly think there's folk who want to go to games regularly, but aren't, over £3?

Of course there are. In a single instance its "only £3". Over a season it's over £100 (home and away). 

People will - and do - refuse to spend that extra for what is a shite standard. 

[RandomGuy.]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Alli said:

Of course there are. In a single instance its "only £3". Over a season it's over £100 (home and away). 

People will - and do - refuse to spend that extra for what is a shite standard. 

Nah.

There's folk who are telling folk they aren't going because it's £23 and will say £20 is better, but I'd absolutely guarantee at £20 they'd find an excuse not to go regularly too. 

We have something like 3500 season ticket holders, av attendance of ~4100. So 600 PATG types.

At £23 that's ~£262k a season.

At £20 we'd need another 1700 fans attending to break even, otherwise we'd likely be down a first team player in the budget. I expect I'll get told we've plenty of shite players we don't need and having 1700 folk in the ground would be better, but I'd be fairly convinced that the moment we hit a bad run those extra fans would almost all vanish.

Edited February 22, 2022 by RandomGuy.

[The Marly]

5 hours ago, Zamora Fan said:

Doesn’t have to be £5 every game - tho one off initiatives like this are great, build a buzz and get new fans (potential future money spenders) along - but would there be a big financial drop off if we went to £20 max across the decent non bigot teams in the league? With a big publicity scheme accompanying any such agreement I’m not sure, you’d reach more fans who feel priced out and maybe people who feel they have to pick and choose games (I’m one of those fwiw) because of money would feel they can afford to go more often.

And if there are losses we can make them back by charging Celtgers hordes £40 and letting them have 3 stands. Imagine the tears.

Twenty's plenty. 

[The Marly]

44 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Nah.

There's folk who are telling folk they aren't going because it's £23 and will say £20 is better, but I'd absolutely guarantee at £20 they'd find an excuse not to go regularly too. 

We have something like 3500 season ticket holders, av attendance of ~4100. So 600 PATG types.

At £23 that's ~£262k a season.

At £20 we'd need another 1700 fans attending to break even, otherwise we'd likely be down a first team player in the budget. I expect I'll get told we've plenty of shite players we don't need and having 1700 folk in the ground would be better, but I'd be fairly convinced that the moment we hit a bad run those extra fans would almost all vanish.

I don't think we have 3500 season ticket holders.  Is it not more like 2500?

[John Bonham]

I think as a one-off it would be cool to see us reciprocate the initiative with Hibs next season. One game a season at a fiver - see if it might draw a few extra folk to come back for the following games too. If we can stay up of course!

Edited February 22, 2022 by John Bonham

[jamamafegan]

Great article this: https://www.supporters-direct.scot/value-for-money-the-price-of-scottish-football/

Line in first paragraph stands out for me: “Are clubs preying on the immeasurable customer loyalty shown by their fan base in order to maximise their match day revenue” - yes, preying on people like RandomGuy. He’s a victim, he just doesn’t realise it yet.

[double deluxe]

1 hour ago, The Marly said:

I don't think we have 3500 season ticket holders.  Is it not more like 2500?

Circa 2,700

[RandomGuy.]

45 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

Great article this: https://www.supporters-direct.scot/value-for-money-the-price-of-scottish-football/

Line in first paragraph stands out for me: “Are clubs preying on the immeasurable customer loyalty shown by their fan base in order to maximise their match day revenue” - yes, preying on people like RandomGuy. He’s a victim, he just doesn’t realise it yet.

Why not do something about it then?

Like you've genuinely mewled about this for at least 5 years now, yet I've never seen any attempt at doing anything about it. You absolutely have the power to help change it if you put the effort in and got support over social media about it, even if you could force each club to trial it once a season that's a start.

But you'll need to put effort in. Nobody at a club will listen if your argument is simply "I think it would be better". There's plenty of previous games where teams have put special offers on etc., and Saints have the reduced family ticket which is a great thing to look into if you want to prove lower prices = more fans = better long term.

[Zamora Fan]

Nah.
There's folk who are telling folk they aren't going because it's £23 and will say £20 is better, but I'd absolutely guarantee at £20 they'd find an excuse not to go regularly too. 
We have something like 3500 season ticket holders, av attendance of ~4100. So 600 PATG types.
At £23 that's ~£262k a season.
At £20 we'd need another 1700 fans attending to break even, otherwise we'd likely be down a first team player in the budget. I expect I'll get told we've plenty of shite players we don't need and having 1700 folk in the ground would be better, but I'd be fairly convinced that the moment we hit a bad run those extra fans would almost all vanish.

£3 less at Saints = £7 (at least) less at Hearts, £6 less at Aberdeen, £5 less at Livi/Ross County. Our PATG prices fluctuate higher based on opponent too. If you budget the money really adds up when you consider travel etc too, and if you don’t do strict budgets but are still tight a max £20 is far easier to justify. I think a most-league wide Twenty’s Plenty agreement would generate enough goodwill to boost fan numbers for a season.

[RandomGuy.]

5 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said:

£3 less at Saints = £7 (at least) less at Hearts, £6 less at Aberdeen, £5 less at Livi/Ross County. Our PATG prices fluctuate higher based on opponent too. If you budget the money really adds up when you consider travel etc too, and if you don’t do strict budgets but are still tight a max £20 is far easier to justify. I think a most-league wide Twenty’s Plenty agreement would generate enough goodwill to boost fan numbers for a season.

But most clubs main income source is matchday income, either season ticket wise or "PATG".

Unless someone ever bothers to actually prove clubs won't be cutting their income for no reason other than gaining a handful of fans then nobody is going to have any interest in it.

If someone could prove that there's a financial benefit, even long term, then you'll see clubs open up to it. 

Just now there's no reason for them to do it so they won't, and screeching about it into the night isn't solving anything.