Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Sh*teAndMuck]

15 minutes ago, Radford said:

Nobody can have enjoyed our brand of football yesterday. 

Correct. And not just yesterday. We’ve played like that all season.

The passing around the central halves was highlighted yesterday due to us being behind the goal and due to Dundee sitting back so deep and plugging any gaps.

We desperately need one or even two proper midfielders in the Ali McCann / Chris Millar / Jody Morris mould to take the ball from the defenders and pick a pass. 

[nelsjfc]

Have to disagree with some of the posts about Crawford above; still think he's not contributing enough. Yesterday, one of the most important games of the season, and he's barely involved. We were crying out for someone to drop and get on the ball yet he doesn't. He's scored 4 goals and no assists in 30 games for a guy who's pretty much only role in the team is attacking that isn't good enough.

He's looked better mainly because he's got two guys beside him that will do the work. I'd still have him ahead of Butterfield and MacPherson but that's damning with faint praise.

[PauloPerth]

I’ve made my peace with shiteball until the end of the season.

At the end of January we were bottom of the league 2 points behind Dundee with 15 points after 22 matches, on the back of a run of 0 wins, 2 draws, 8 defeats in the league. (0-2-10 if you include cup matches).

We’re now 31 points from 34 matches after a run of 4 wins 4 draws and 4 defeats from the 12 games since.

It’s far from earth shattering, and there’s massive work needed done in the summer, but it is an improvement and has given us a fighting chance of staying up.  Since January that’s the only thing that’s mattered, performances and everything else are secondary.

Next season is a different matter, the quality on offer has to improve significantly.  But for now scraping over the line anyway possible will do.

[Valentino Bolognese]

1 hour ago, PauloPerth said:

This bothered me in the first half as well. Pass across the back continually until forced to go long.

It needed a central defender to drive on with the ball to commit an opponent, or a ball driven into strikers feet for supporting midfielders to feed off, midfielders to get on the ball, or Rooney to not stand still looking for the long diagonal and instead move to create an angle to get on the ball to drive forward.

The lack of ideas to build attack was dreadful for the first 35 minutes.

Once we upped the tempo we were much better instead of slowing everything down to allow Dundee to set up behind the ball. Sang added a lot more drive going forward, as did Rooney. For once I think Callum made a change that improved us at ht yesterday. 

Callum Hendry has been on fire lately but the absolute lack of getting the ball into him yesterday was ridiculous, especially first half, against a very suspect defence.

 

Hallberg had a bit of a shocker but he did start dropping deeper to try to pick up the ball from the centre halves, who appeared not to notice him at all as he wasn't beside or behind them. 

I thought that Rooney simply got frustrated in the first half, standing on the chalkline waving his arms around and asking for the ball in open space. I'd not be surprised if he'd not asked CD to play RCB so that he could take the ball forward. 

We were told that Cleary was Kerr's replacement in part because he liked to step out of the back line. Not much evidence of that yesterday. 

[Radford]

It's hard to criticise the form (4-4-4 gets you top six virtually every season I'd be confident) but whether it's just because the performance at Livingston was such a breathe of fresh air, the actual football has been mind-numbing. 

I've relented on punting him immediately - as I would have done after Celtic Park - but these have to be his final 4/6 games in charge. Please. 

I know there are good Saints fans getting annoyed at the negativity directed towards Davidson but everyone cares about the team and club and simply want for the best. 

[Jamie_B]

14 minutes ago, Radford said:

It's hard to criticise the form (4-4-4 gets you top six virtually every season I'd be confident) but whether it's just because the performance at Livingston was such a breathe of fresh air, the actual football has been mind-numbing. 

I've relented on punting him immediately - as I would have done after Celtic Park - but these have to be his final 4/6 games in charge. Please. 

I know there are good Saints fans getting annoyed at the negativity directed towards Davidson but everyone cares about the team and club and simply want for the best. 

This season 4-4-4 would have had us comfortably in fourth at this point, and make no mistake - that was absolutely available to us this season.

Fully agree with everything else you say there. I was watching on a stream yesterday and was furious when the fourth official put the injury time board up and Davidson went absolutely mental about there being four minutes added time. He saw it as four minutes we had to hold out for, not four minutes for us to get a crucial winner. Infuriating.

[tree house tam]

57 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

He saw it as four minutes we had to hold out for, not four minutes for us to get a crucial winner. Infuriating.

And yet he spouts that shite in the press about his players sitting back but not by his instructions. The biggest fraud in the history of football was this charlatan winning a double.

[monkfish]

2 hours ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Hallberg had a bit of a shocker but he did start dropping deeper to try to pick up the ball from the centre halves, who appeared not to notice him at all as he wasn't beside or behind them. 

I thought that Rooney simply got frustrated in the first half, standing on the chalkline waving his arms around and asking for the ball in open space. I'd not be surprised if he'd not asked CD to play RCB so that he could take the ball forward. 

We were told that Cleary was Kerr's replacement in part because he liked to step out of the back line. Not much evidence of that yesterday. 

Cleary did step out from the back quite a bit when he first signed, and doesn't anymore. Hallberg was creative and attacking when he first signed, not so much anymore. Almost as if they are having any attacking instinct coached out of them. 

Perhaps this is purely a squad confidence issue dragging down the new signings, and not the fact that the longer they spend with our coaching team the worse they get, and it'll all be alright next season (if we survive)...but it's a big risk keeping the manager and hoping that's the case. 

[Widge]

The thing I noticed most on Saturday was the lack of confidence that still remains with the team. I think the system we play has its flaws for sure, but it can be effective if the players are brave both on and off the ball. If there's no confidence in the team then players wont look for the ball, or the centre backs wont be brave enough to push on and take a man on. In fact I can count the number of times a player in the saints team actually beat a man in that first half. The answer is 1 and that was McCart in his own half, but low and behold it actually created space and gave the opportunity to get a shot away which we did. The points about teams sitting their wide men on our centre backs is also correct, but if the defenders and midfielders were braver on the ball, then we'd have beaten the Dundee press a lot more and probably created more chances. 

It was also a slight worry to see Clark back to his flapping best, like he usually does at Dens. Dunno what it is about there, but he always has a shocker. I'd also be looking at Liam Gordon's place in the team right now, his form is poor and his use of the ball is even worse. I know it won't happen with the important games we've got, but Mahon should get a chance next season for sure. 

[The Marly]

If we stay up - and it's a MASSIVE if - we need a huge overhaul next season.  The few players we have who are good enough are likely to leave with the possible exception of Spoony.  Mahon and Bare might be good, but we're not going to find out with Davidson in charge.  I haven't wanted a manager to leave since Stark, but I now feel it's time for Davidson to go.  Last season was brilliant - but that just makes what has happened this season even more infuriating.  We should not be in the position we are in, pure and simple.  The core of the team from Del through to Tommy Wright remained in place for most of that time (Mackay, Wright, Anderson, Millar, Muzz, Spoony and Macca) and we simply don't have that strength of character in those numbers at the club just now. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see things improving if Davidson remains in charge regardless what division we are in next season. Before anyone asks, no I don't have any ideas on who should replace him.  The Browns have by and large made good managerial appointments and I think they are capable of doing so again.  That is not to excuse the Chairman of any faults  this season - he has to accept his share of the responsibility for the situation the club is in.

[tree house tam]

See when happy clappers like Marly want him out you know the games fucked.

 

Is it just Paulo left standing on that hill now?

[The Saintee]

1 hour ago, tree house tam said:

See when happy clappers like Marly want him out you know the games fucked.

 

Is it just Paulo left standing on that hill now?

And one or two on WAP. But most want him gone.

[The Marly]

1 hour ago, tree house tam said:

See when happy clappers like Marly want him out you know the games fucked.

 

Is it just Paulo left standing on that hill now?

I'm just a realist Tam.  By any measure, the last ten years have been the best in the history of the club.  Three cups, European campaigns most seasons, some terrific players in Saints shirts and a team to be very proud of for most of it.  The demise over the last six months is terrible though and ultimately the manager has to carry the can.  If I thought there was scope for improvement next season, then I would say so. Unfortunately I don't.

[Radford]

It honestly isn't the struggles this season for me. I don't see it as underachieving as know we go into any season with the possibility of being in a battle at the moment.

I know some fans feel it shouldn't have happened this season, of all seasons, but, as said, it honestly isn't that for me. 

It's the football. It's eye-bleeding tedium. I can watch Saints lose but I'm really struggling to watch what is being offered up in terms of style of play and some of the players that are at the heart of it. Fills me with dejection that they are likely to be here for another year or two as well. 

There isn't a single entertainer available for selection at the moment and those that maybe do have an ounce of attacking instinct have pea hearts. David Wotherspoon is obviously excluded from that charge given his injury. 

If I believed for a second that Davidson would rip it up and start again in the summer, it would at least offer some cause for hope. But he won't and that simply creates a feeling of desolation.

[Dooj]

3 hours ago, tree house tam said:

See when happy clappers like Marly want him out you know the games fucked.

 

Is it just Paulo left standing on that hill now?

I dont know where I stand. If the news came that he had been sacked I would be really sad but that's maybe because I wanted him to do well, and he clearly hasn't this season. I can see that maybe getting rid would be the best decision, even if there would be a financial hit given the length of his contract. 

I know there are lots on here and WAP etc who claim to be/are actually ITK, but for me the clincher in whether to get rid of a manager or not, rests massively on factors that we dont know - a team can be performing badly but still be up for the fight. Has CD 'lost the dressing room'? I dont know and it would be a tough call for the chairman to make (and he should definitely be ITK). I do have a lot of sympathy for CD with the players he lost this year and significant injuries. I know he hasn't used that as an excuse (which is good) but I believe it is a valid factor. He got the backing in January, tried to fix that problem, and while not every player has been a success, results have improved. I really dont see the point of backing him in January to then sack him this summer if he keeps us up. 

[andrewh]

37 minutes ago, Dooj said:

I really dont see the point of backing him in January to then sack him this summer if he keeps us up. 

If he won’t change, and I doubt he will, are you up for another season of negative, defensive football, a lack of goals devoid of any inspiration and entertainment?

Edited April 26, 2022 by andrewh

[The Saintee]

1 hour ago, Radford said:

It honestly isn't the struggles this season for me. I don't see it as underachieving as know we go into any season with the possibility of being in a battle at the moment.

I know some fans feel it shouldn't have happened this season, of all seasons, but, as said, it honestly isn't that for me. 

It's the football. It's eye-bleeding tedium. I can watch Saints lose but I'm really struggling to watch what is being offered up in terms of style of play and some of the players that are at the heart of it. Fills me with dejection that they are likely to be here for another year or two as well. 

There isn't a single entertainer available for selection at the moment and those that maybe do have an ounce of attacking instinct have pea hearts. David Wotherspoon is obviously excluded from that charge given his injury. 

If I believed for a second that Davidson would rip it up and start again in the summer, it would at least offer some cause for hope. But he won't and that simply creates a feeling of desolation.

It's the whole package for me. The negative football. The poor signings. The ridiculous contracts dished out on dross. The unwillingness to give some players a start while others can do no wrong. Writing off some players publicly. The alluded to fighting and arrogance behind the scenes. The lack of planning. Crazy use of substitutions. 

We've paid actual money for MacPherson who is dreadful, ( one trapped ball aside) and on Bair and Mahon who have barely been in the pitch. 

It's been the kind of shite that we've laughed at other clubs for doing. 

Tommy left us in a good place as witnessed by the double but it's all been torn down in a matter of months.

[Dooj]

38 minutes ago, andrewh said:

If he won’t change, and I doubt he will, are you up for another season of negative, defensive football, a lack of goals devoid of any inspiration and entertainment?

I dont get to many games so I fully appreciate that the regulars/STHs are the ones most likely to be unhappy about the lack of entertainment.

Having said that, I hear time and time again that football is a 'results business' so I dont think that the level of entertainment should be a prime consideration in whether the manager should keep his job or not.

Also, CD was successful last year because he didn't change his system despite many people calling for him to be sacked pretty early on. He insisted on, and was rewarded/praised for, sticking to his guns. I want 'things' (i.e. results, performance, goals scored) to change but I dont think it's fair for anyone to expect CD to change given that this is his trademark. I do get that this has been a desperate season, but it seems to me that many fans' disappointment, while entirely justified, has resulted in some pretty unfair assessments of CD. Personally, I would be very glad if CD never listened to fans' opinions on what system he should play - he has to have faith in his own abilities as a manager and to stick to his principles through the ups and downs. He might end up getting sacked but he has to have some integrity.

[The Marly]

1 hour ago, Radford said:

It honestly isn't the struggles this season for me. I don't see it as underachieving as know we go into any season with the possibility of being in a battle at the moment.

I know some fans feel it shouldn't have happened this season, of all seasons, but, as said, it honestly isn't that for me. 

It's the football. It's eye-bleeding tedium. I can watch Saints lose but I'm really struggling to watch what is being offered up in terms of style of play and some of the players that are at the heart of it. Fills me with dejection that they are likely to be here for another year or two as well. 

There isn't a single entertainer available for selection at the moment and those that maybe do have an ounce of attacking instinct have pea hearts. David Wotherspoon is obviously excluded from that charge given his injury. 

If I believed for a second that Davidson would rip it up and start again in the summer, it would at least offer some cause for hope. But he won't and that simply creates a feeling of desolation.

It's exactly this for me too. Even the Motherwell game I was sitting there thinking "just blow the final whistle ref"  Hendry's goal was obviously brilliant,  but it just papered over the cracks of another mind numbingly boring game.

The football under Davidson has been mostly awful, let's be honest. 

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Dooj said:

 

Also, CD was successful last year because he didn't change his system.

He did change it, though. Wotherspoons role changed into a more central midfield one, and we also changed to get Melamed, then Middleton, in the side, from his original plan. Liam Craig came in to plug central holes his initial tactic threw up as another example. Then things changed again when we lost McNamara. 

The fact he could change last season but is stubbornly sticking by it this season is the thing I don't understand about what's happened this year.