Follow Follow Rangers. Season 2023/24

[G51]

17 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

Not sure who thats pointed at - however, if you genuinely think that my post this morning were merely this - then I will remove my post no problem.

Just let me know.

It's not up to me to tell you what to put in your posts mate. You make your own choices over what you say.

What I will say is that if I was a black player taking action against racism, and the response from supporters of other clubs was effectively "Yeah well your employer released an orange top a few years back to capitalise on loyalism" then I'd probably consider those supporters to be part of the problem, not part of the solution. That's just my take on it though.

13 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

The forum has been virtually universally supportive of Kamara and other on this issue.

It may be poor timing to voice it but the fact that some see a hint of irony in Rangers as a club taking such a moral stance shouldn't be surprising.

This forum has been nowhere close to universally supportive of Kamara, or indeed other players who have suffered racist abuse. It's been full of "Aye, but".

It's really, really sad that Scottish football supporters seem to be completely unable to set aside football tribalism in the name of anti-racism, and it gives me absolutely no confidence in the capabilities of supporters to tackle other big issues, including anti-sectarianism. Football tribalism is fun and we use it for that, but the minute something more serious comes along we have to drop it and stand united, or else it becomes a corrupting influence.

It's a serious issue, because it's inhibiting the progress of anti-racism initiatives within the game. This thread is a perfect example of that - people simply unable to accept that a black player has been racially abused simply because of who he played for, with a good helping of racism included.

[Dons_1988]

7 minutes ago, G51 said:

This forum has been nowhere close to universally supportive of Kamara, or indeed other players who have suffered racist abuse. It's been full of "Aye, but".

It's really, really sad that Scottish football supporters seem to be completely unable to set aside football tribalism in the name of anti-racism, and it gives me absolutely no confidence in the capabilities of supporters to tackle other big issues, including anti-sectarianism. Football tribalism is fun and we use it for that, but the minute something more serious comes along we have to drop it and stand united, or else it becomes a corrupting influence.

It's a serious issue, because it's inhibiting the progress of anti-racism initiatives within the game. This thread is a perfect example of that - people simply unable to accept that a black player has been racially abused simply because of who he played for, with a good helping of racism included.

Addressing a point about this forum with 'aye but AFC chat...'? Good one.

I haven't read through the full Euro thread but I have seen very, very little other than full support to Kamara and wanting the book thrown at Slavia Prague. Because some people conflate issues that is a) a bit inappropriate in the current context or b) doesn't fit with how you want this all to go doesn't change that.

 

[AJF]

3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Addressing a point about this forum with 'aye but AFC chat...'? Good one.

I haven't read through the full Euro thread but I have seen very, very little other than full support to Kamara and wanting the book thrown at Slavia Prague. Because some people conflate issues that is a) a bit inappropriate in the current context or b) doesn't fit with how you want this all to go doesn't change that.

 

You just have to look at the upvotes and downvotes on each post to see there is no universal agreement on the subject. There are some people that come out and openly flip the scenario as if it's somehow Rangers that need to take action after the incident. You then get those posts being upvoted by those that are probably too smart to attach that opinion to themselves and outright say it.

This very thread has some interesting downvotes in it.

[G51]

5 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Addressing a point about this forum with 'aye but AFC chat...'? Good one.

I haven't read through the full Euro thread but I have seen very, very little other than full support to Kamara and wanting the book thrown at Slavia Prague. Because some people conflate issues that is a) a bit inappropriate in the current context or b) doesn't fit with how you want this all to go doesn't change that.

 

Except my point wasn't about this forum, it was about this attitude inhibiting the progress of anti-racism initiatives within Scottish football and among Scottish football supporters. As I clearly stated.

You can go on to Hibs.net, Jambos Kickback or wherever, you'll find similar comments. It doesn't matter. All football clubs have racists in their support.

 

[G51]

38 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

He has got a point in that it has taken far too long to sort this out. The case should have been heard a day or two after the appeal went in. But it’s the usual “them an’ them” scenario. Why doesn’t Kennedy just get on with looking after what he’s supposed to look after at Celtic and let other clubs get on with their own business. Would John Kennedy have come out with this stuff if it was Kilmarnock players?

There are durations specified in the rules which mean an appeal can't be rushed. These rules apply to everyone.

[Golden Gordon]

48 minutes ago, G51 said:

It's not up to me to tell you what to put in your posts mate. You make your own choices over what you say.

What I will say is that if I was a black player taking action against racism, and the response from supporters of other clubs was effectively "Yeah well your employer released an orange top a few years back to capitalise on loyalism" then I'd probably consider those supporters to be part of the problem, not part of the solution. That's just my take on it though.

This forum has been nowhere close to universally supportive of Kamara, or indeed other players who have suffered racist abuse. It's been full of "Aye, but".

It's really, really sad that Scottish football supporters seem to be completely unable to set aside football tribalism in the name of anti-racism, and it gives me absolutely no confidence in the capabilities of supporters to tackle other big issues, including anti-sectarianism. Football tribalism is fun and we use it for that, but the minute something more serious comes along we have to drop it and stand united, or else it becomes a corrupting influence.

It's a serious issue, because it's inhibiting the progress of anti-racism initiatives within the game. This thread is a perfect example of that - people simply unable to accept that a black player has been racially abused simply because of who he played for, with a good helping of racism included.

I don't think it's inconsistent to want to eradicate both racism and sectarianism from football, anyone who is a decent human being knows that there should be no place for either in Scottish society. 

I also think it is consistent to be supportive of a Rangers* player who has experienced racial abuse whilst also recognising that there is a subculture of the same club's support with sectarian leanings. 

However, I agree that it is pretty ham-fisted to be bringing up sectarianism in direct connection with someone being racially abused, as the timing of it is fairly insensitive. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Golden Gordon
Typo

[G51]

5 minutes ago, Golden Gordon said:

I don't think it's inconsistent to want to eradicate both racism and sectarianism from football, anyone who is a decent human being knows that there should be no place for either in Scottish society. 

I also think it is consistent to be supportive of a Rangers* player who has experienced racial abuse whilst also recognising that there is a subculture of the same club's support with sectarian leanings. 

However, I agree that it is pretty ham-fisted to be bringing up sectarianism in direct connection with someone being racially abused, as the timing of it is a fairly insensitive. 

There is a subculture of *every* club's support that has racist/sectarian/discriminatory leanings. These things are not unique to Rangers and Celtic, and you don't have to look very far to find evidence of them.

If you are determined to shoot the messenger instead of supporting the message, then you're part of the problem.

[AJF]

56 minutes ago, G51 said:

It's a serious issue, because it's inhibiting the progress of anti-racism initiatives within the game. This thread is a perfect example of that - people simply unable to accept that a black player has been racially abused simply because of who he played for, with a good helping of racism included.

Had a skim through that thread... wish I hadn't! Some wild, wild takes.

[Jinky67]

Read this one with interest and thought carefully about offering an opinion.

I think part of the issue is we are only a generation on from the Mo Johnston affair and what that meant for Rangers. Sadly there is still some supporters who don’t seem to want to move on and still teach the new generation the old ways but those numbers I’m pretty confident are diminishing and Rangers I’m sure they are doing all they can and what they can’t be doing is saying it’s an oldco issue, if you want the history and titles you take accountability for the darker parts of it too. The same applies to Celtic nd the element of our fans who sing certain songs about certain organisations, half of these idiots weren’t even on the planet when these organisations were at their prime

However what Rangers are doing is a really good thing and it’s a good place to start, yes I’d love to see the message be an all encompassing one taking a stand against all bigotry whether racial, religious or otherwise however this is still a good place to start and if Rangers can have their fans bought into this campaign fully then it offers a good foundation for them to go forward and tackle the other problem because I’m pretty sure Rangers as a club don’t want fines, bans or playing in empty stadiums because some fans can’t move with the times. The more fans who get behind the anti-racism programme will in time teach the next generations of football fans a better way.

So aye well done Rangers 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Jinky67

[G51]

Just now, AJF said:

Had a skim through that thread... wish I hadn't! Some wild, wild takes.

To be clear, I'm not trying to dig out Aberdeen fans as a collective over that. I hate it when people (frequently) associate me with horrific things that some other Rangers supporters say - I'm sure you do too. If we held all supporters as responsible for the worst of their fanbases, then Scottish football would be thoroughly ashamed of all of it's major clubs. Most Aberdeen fans are the same as the rest of us - good people who are trying to do the right thing in an increasingly complex world.

The point I'm trying to make is that by introducing an immediate equivalence between Rangers players being racially abused, and subsequently taking a stand over it, and previous failures from Rangers and Rangers supporters on anti-sectarianism, you are completely undermining the anti-racism initiative undertaken by the players, whether you intend to or not! Because it gives the people who actually need to listen an excuse not to, since it's coming from a source that they don't like.

Rangers, Celtic and Scotland have a long way to go on sectarianism, we all know this. It's going to take a long time, and it will likely never be fully resolved until Northern Ireland is in a different, better place. Until then, it takes a lot of work from everyone to do what we can. There's no need to undermine anti-racist initiatives simply to use sectarianism for tribal point-scoring. If you do that, you're part of the problem.

[Leith Green]

15 minutes ago, Golden Gordon said:

I don't think it's inconsistent to want to eradicate both racism and sectarianism from football, anyone who is a decent human being knows that there should be no place for either in Scottish society. 

I also think it is consistent to be supportive of a Rangers* player who has experienced racial abuse whilst also recognising that there is a subculture of the same club's support with sectarian leanings. 

However, I agree that it is pretty ham-fisted to be bringing up sectarianism in direct connection with someone being racially abused, as the timing of it is fairly insensitive. 

I think this is fair.

Just for clarity for anyone questioning my motives - I prefer the phrase "eradicate bigotry in all its forms" to clubs singling out whatever "ism" affects any particular club / player.

Doesnt matter if its abusing people for their skin colour, sexual orientation, religion etc - none of it is acceptable, and pretty much all of it is against the law.

Again, for the avoidance of doubt - no club overtly condones unacceptable and illegal behaviour, but the conscious act of not condemning it tells you what you need to know. This applies to any club, Czech or Scottish or whatever.

[AJF]

1 minute ago, G51 said:

To be clear, I'm not trying to dig out Aberdeen fans as a collective over that. I hate it when people (frequently) associate me with horrific things that some other Rangers supporters say - I'm sure you do too. If we held all supporters as responsible for the worst of their fanbases, then Scottish football would be thoroughly ashamed of all of it's major clubs. Most Aberdeen fans are the same as the rest of us - good people who are trying to do the right thing in an increasingly complex world.

The point I'm trying to make is that by introducing an immediate equivalence between Rangers players being racially abused, and subsequently taking a stand over it, and previous failures from Rangers and Rangers supporters on anti-sectarianism, you are completely undermining the anti-racism initiative undertaken by the players, whether you intend to or not! Because it gives the people who actually need to listen an excuse not to, since it's coming from a source that they don't like.

Rangers, Celtic and Scotland have a long way to go on sectarianism, we all know this. It's going to take a long time, and it will likely never be fully resolved until Northern Ireland is in a different, better place. Until then, it takes a lot of work from everyone to do what we can. There's no need to undermine anti-racist initiatives simply to use sectarianism for tribal point-scoring. If you do that, you're part of the problem.

Yep, I fully agree and I know that snippets from whatever forum cannot be used to tar everyone with the same brush. I was just astonished at some of the takes on show.

[AJF]

2 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

I think this is fair.

Just for clarity for anyone questioning my motives - I prefer the phrase "eradicate bigotry in all its forms" to clubs singling out whatever "ism" affects any particular club / player.

Doesnt matter if its abusing people for their skin colour, sexual orientation, religion etc - none of it is acceptable, and pretty much all of it is against the law.

Again, for the avoidance of doubt - no club overtly condones unacceptable and illegal behaviour, but the conscious act of not condemning it tells you what you need to know. This applies to any club, Czech or Scottish or whatever.

I agree with this, but then you have the issue of people deciding what is acceptable condemnation. I gave various examples earlier in the thread of Rangers condemning bigotry, but it was then disregarded as lip service.

[AJF]

Big fan of Gerrard clamping John Kennedy in his press conference today.

 

[Golden Gordon]

51 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

I think this is fair.

Just for clarity for anyone questioning my motives - I prefer the phrase "eradicate bigotry in all its forms" to clubs singling out whatever "ism" affects any particular club / player.

Doesnt matter if its abusing people for their skin colour, sexual orientation, religion etc - none of it is acceptable, and pretty much all of it is against the law.

Again, for the avoidance of doubt - no club overtly condones unacceptable and illegal behaviour, but the conscious act of not condemning it tells you what you need to know. This applies to any club, Czech or Scottish or whatever.

Good point, eradicate bigotry in all its forms is a better way to phrase it. 

[gannonball]

Yeah Im more in the fair fucks to them group. It’s not an easy support to appease in modern society but if this also ends up being a catalyst to eradicate some of the dinosaurs in their own support then win win.

[kingjoey]

1 hour ago, AJF said:

Big fan of Gerrard clamping John Kennedy in his press conference today.

 

Utterly pathetic quote from Gerrard.

[kingjoey]

2 hours ago, G51 said:

There are durations specified in the rules which mean an appeal can't be rushed. These rules apply to everyone.

If a player gets a ban for, as an example, simulation in the week after the match and the player’s club appeals, the appeal is heard and sorted within a couple of days, not a couple of months.

[craigkillie]

1 minute ago, kingjoey said:

If a player gets a ban for, as an example, simulation in the week after the match and the player’s club appeals, the appeal is heard and sorted within a couple of days, not a couple of months.

Because there's an entirely different disciplinary process for on-field and off-field incidents.

[G51]

2 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

If a player gets a ban for, as an example, simulation in the week after the match and the player’s club appeals, the appeal is heard and sorted within a couple of days, not a couple of months.

As per the SFA's Judicial Panel Protocol:

The appeal has to be lodged within five working days. I assume we lodged it on Sunday to allow the players to play.

From there, the SFA has to appoint members of an Appellate Tribunal. These members are then notified and the Appellant has three working days to object to any member of the tribunal. The Appellant then has to prepare and submit their case five working days in advance of the Tribunal date.

There's a lot of moving parts there.