Follow Follow Rangers. Season 2023/24

[G51]

21 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

This is a ban for an off the field attack on people - I don't see an issue at all with having a minimum for these because it's not a heat of the moment incident or anything like that. The context will still be taken into account, because I'd imagine that seeking out and battering an opponent for no reason would lead to a ban substantially longer than five games.

It absolutely is similar to a heat of the moment incident. This reminds me very much of Jonathan Liew's article about it - if we continue to police the reactions of black players to racist abuse and deem which reactions are "acceptable" and "unacceptable", then we stand absolutely no chance of ever eradicating racism from the game. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/23/furore-around-glen-kamara-shows-how-racists-can-keep-getting-away-with-abuse

I'd be extremely surprised if there was a consensus among people that a five game ban was appropriate for what happened.

8 minutes ago, Sortmeout said:

Even with the clear provocation and circumstances UEFA still have to give Kamara a ban if they find him guilty of assault. If not then they will have players lamping opponents all over the place as retaliation.

Whatever the minimum is for Kamara’s offence is what he should get and whatever the maximum for the racists offence is what he should get. 
 

You say this as if a) this wouldn't be a good thing, and b) it wouldn't cut down on the number of players being racist on the pitch, which is an epidemic that appears to be growing at the moment.

[Moomintroll]

8 minutes ago, G51 said:

It absolutely is similar to a heat of the moment incident. This reminds me very much of Jonathan Liew's article about it - if we continue to police the reactions of black players to racist abuse and deem which reactions are "acceptable" and "unacceptable", then we stand absolutely no chance of ever eradicating racism from the game. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/23/furore-around-glen-kamara-shows-how-racists-can-keep-getting-away-with-abuse

I'd be extremely surprised if there was a consensus among people that a five game ban was appropriate for what happened.

You say this as if a) this wouldn't be a good thing, and b) it wouldn't cut down on the number of players being racist on the pitch, which is an epidemic that appears to be growing at the moment.

But then he goes on to say that Kamara should get the lightest pissible punishment & the racist shit should get the maximum. The disparity between both is something that UEFA should be widening massively but as they are only pretending to care they will not.

[Dons_1988]

11 minutes ago, G51 said:

It absolutely is similar to a heat of the moment incident. This reminds me very much of Jonathan Liew's article about it - if we continue to police the reactions of black players to racist abuse and deem which reactions are "acceptable" and "unacceptable", then we stand absolutely no chance of ever eradicating racism from the game. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/23/furore-around-glen-kamara-shows-how-racists-can-keep-getting-away-with-abuse

I'd be extremely surprised if there was a consensus among people that a five game ban was appropriate for what happened.

You say this as if a) this wouldn't be a good thing, and b) it wouldn't cut down on the number of players being racist on the pitch, which is an epidemic that appears to be growing at the moment.

This is silly. You can’t just abandon any notion of unacceptable reactions to being subject to abuse. It would be a dreadful precedent. 

[G51]

24 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

This is silly. You can’t just abandon any notion of unacceptable reactions to being subject to abuse. It would be a dreadful precedent. 

That's not what I said. I said we cannot police the reactions of black players to racist abuse. I'm sure you appreciate that is very different to saying it's a free-for-all every time some kind of general abuse is given.

If other people feel that it's unacceptable for a black player to react to racist abuse by throwing a punch, then I'd be very interested to hear them speak up and say why.

[Lobby Dossar]

2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

How could you possibility legislate for that? Which offences would you be allowed to retaliate to without punishment? What degree of retaliation would be acceptable within these rules? Would he still be immune from punishment if he put him in a coma?

The important thing here is that if Kudela is found guilty, which I expect he will be, then his punishment far outstrips that of Kamara, which I'm sure it will. If Kamara did assault the guy and it was reported then I don't see how they can turn a blind eye to that though.
 

If he did assault him he should be charged with said assault by Her Majesty’s finest.

No way there should be one rule for footballers and another rule for the rest of us 

[Dons_1988]

16 minutes ago, G51 said:

That's not what I said. I said we cannot police the reactions of black players to racist abuse. I'm sure you appreciate that is very different to saying it's a free-for-all every time some kind of general abuse is given.

If other people feel that it's unacceptable for a black player to react to racist abuse by throwing a punch, then I'd be very interested to hear them speak up and say why.

I understand what you’re saying but it isn’t a feasible position for a governing body to take.  

Hypothetically, If uefa gave the slavia boy a years ban and kamara a 2 game ban for assault or whatever the charge is, would you find that unacceptable?

[RandomGuy.]

Kamara will get a ban because he has to, due to skelping someone, as that's the rulebook. It'll be nowhere near the racists, nor what it would be if he hadn't been "provoked".

You open up a whole "two wrongs make a right" can of worms if you don't punish Kamara in some form. Even if they give him a suspended ban or something.

[Sortmeout]

1 hour ago, G51 said:

It absolutely is similar to a heat of the moment incident. This reminds me very much of Jonathan Liew's article about it - if we continue to police the reactions of black players to racist abuse and deem which reactions are "acceptable" and "unacceptable", then we stand absolutely no chance of ever eradicating racism from the game. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/23/furore-around-glen-kamara-shows-how-racists-can-keep-getting-away-with-abuse

I'd be extremely surprised if there was a consensus among people that a five game ban was appropriate for what happened.

You say this as if a) this wouldn't be a good thing, and b) it wouldn't cut down on the number of players being racist on the pitch, which is an epidemic that appears to be growing at the moment.

What’s to stop player A from punching player B next season and dressing it up as retaliation for something that was said on the pitch?

People can’t take the law into their own hands regardless of what crime has been committed against them. It’s pretty much that simple.

[Golden Gordon]

1 hour ago, G51 said:

It absolutely is similar to a heat of the moment incident. This reminds me very much of Jonathan Liew's article about it - if we continue to police the reactions of black players to racist abuse and deem which reactions are "acceptable" and "unacceptable", then we stand absolutely no chance of ever eradicating racism from the game. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/23/furore-around-glen-kamara-shows-how-racists-can-keep-getting-away-with-abuse

You might have included the wrong link here, this article seems to be focussed on the difficulty black players face in the process of proving racism occurred rather than policing their reactions.

[Savage Henry]

25 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Kamara will get a ban because he has to, due to skelping someone, as that's the rulebook. It'll be nowhere near the racists, nor what it would be if he hadn't been "provoked".

You open up a whole "two wrongs make a right" can of worms if you don't punish Kamara in some form. Even if they give him a suspended ban or something.

Agreed. What’s going to be an even bigger can of worms, as is being speculated, is if the racist gets a token ban and a £2,000 fine, while Kamara gets a five game ban.   
 

And I’m sure all of us agree that we hope Kamara absolutely flattened him. 

[Savage Henry]

3 hours ago, craigkillie said:

How could you possibility legislate for that? Which offences would you be allowed to retaliate to without punishment? What degree of retaliation would be acceptable within these rules? Would he still be immune from punishment if he put him in a coma?

The important thing here is that if Kudela is found guilty, which I expect he will be, then his punishment far outstrips that of Kamara, which I'm sure it will. If Kamara did assault the guy and it was reported then I don't see how they can turn a blind eye to that though.
 

Do you really have  faith in UEFA doing that though?  Far be it from me to agree with the Rangers cause, but this has all the makings of a scandal.   

[alta-pete]

First off, Kudela whispered his insult. Finding corroboration for that beyond what Kamara told his team mates is going to be (I think) a bit of a challenge. 

While Kamara, if he did lamp him in the tunnel in front of even two corroborative witnesses, is banged to rights. 

We have all formed (I think) a fairly consistent and sure idea of the course of events that evening. Proving them beyond an inevitable appeal to a dispassionate body is (I think) going to be a much tougher test. 

The outcome is going to be an injustice.

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by alta-pete

[KnightswoodBear]

Kamara will get a ban if they rule that he's leathered the racist in the tunnel. As he should. 

I'm still delighted that he did it, though. 

[velo army]

3 minutes ago, KnightswoodBear said:

Kamara will get a ban if they rule that he's leathered the racist in the tunnel. As he should. 

I'm still delighted that he did it, though. 

Exactly this. 

I had similar reservations to @alta-pete but I'm wondering if UEFA require the same burden of proof that a law court would. 

[Mark Connolly]

Unless something else happened in the tunnel before the alleged "serious assault", it might also be difficult to argue that it was "the heat of the moment" given that he didn't leather him on the pitch, and waited until they were up the tunnel.

Agree with the opinion that if he did give him a smack, it was totally deserved.

[bennett]

Still shocked that it was Kamara who belted him, I was sure that it would've been Goldson.  He'll obviously get a ban but hopefully the Sparta player receives a harsher penalty. 

 

[G51 Red]

15 minutes ago, bennett said:

Still shocked that it was Kamara who belted him, I was sure that it would've been Goldson.  He'll obviously get a ban but hopefully the Sparta player receives a harsher penalty. 

 

Would have been better if one of his own team mates had hit him ...

[G51]

 

fucking lol

[Ranaldo Bairn]

7 minutes ago, G51 said:

 

fucking lol

Has to be a tax dodge.

[Sortmeout]

32 minutes ago, G51 said:

 

fucking lol

Surely not.