Coefficientwatch

[Bestsinceslicebread]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The difficulty is that I don't accept that as true at all.

I think in fact that it's quite simply untrue.

Common to feck Monkey, I didn't expect you to say summit as daft as that. If you go against the other teams in Europe then that's fine but don't come out with a statement that is utter rubbish, (I'm sure you even knew that when you typed it),  the facts are there. Just be honest with yourself and on here and just say you only want your team to do well in Europe and that you don't care about the rest.

The simple fact is, if all Scottish teams do well in Europe, their coefficient goes up, then more places become available and at a higher level, thus more sponsorship, more fans coming to watch. Celtic are the best team in Scotland and have been for many years but if Rangers build a team just as good as Celtic have now then Celtic will spend more bringing in better players, thus crowds will increase, Aberdeen, Hearts Hibs, Killie and the rest will star paying for better players and the standard of Scottish football will rise, its a simple knock on effect which would be amazing. I get it in the league and domestic cups etc... but in Europe, the benefactors in Scottish football as a whole.

 

I have watched a pro youth coach with Celtic and Motherwell for 22 years leave that level and go back down to youth grassroots football. He has not only developed youth players for junior and senior level in the past 4 years but he has developed coaches and they in turn they developing more youths to a higher level, its another example of a ripple effect. in Scottish football

Edited August 10, 2019 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Monkey Tennis]

52 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Common to feck Monkey, I didn't expect you to say summit as daft as that. If you go against the other teams in Europe then that's fine but don't come out with a statement that is utter rubbish, (I'm sure you even knew that when you typed it),  the facts are there. Just be honest with yourself and on here and just say you only want your team to do well in Europe and that you don't care about the rest.

The simple fact is, if all Scottish teams do well in Europe, their coefficient goes up, then more places become available and at a higher level, thus more sponsorship, more fans coming to watch. Celtic are the best team in Scotland and have been for many years but if Rangers build a team just as good as Celtic have now then Celtic will spend more bringing in better players, thus crowds will increase, Aberdeen, Hearts Hibs, Killie and the rest will star paying for better players and the standard of Scottish football will rise, its a simple knock on effect which would be amazing. I get it in the league and domestic cups etc... but in Europe, the benefactors in Scottish football as a whole.

 

I have watched a pro youth coach with Celtic and Motherwell for 22 years leave that level and go back down to youth grassroots football. He has not only developed youth players for junior and senior level in the past 4 years but he has developed coaches and they in turn they developing more youths to a higher level, its another example of a ripple effect. in Scottish football

The way the income is distributed means that there is not this overall raising of interest and standards.

Hibs' crowds for instance, will not climb in the wake of Celtic progressing in Europe.  Why would they?

 

 

Your belief in trickle down benefit is almost touching, such is the naivete therein.

 

 

By the way, I'm not 'at it' at all here.  I sincerely believe every word of what I'm saying.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The way the income is distributed means that there is not this overall raising of interest and standards.

Hibs' crowds for instance, will not climb in the wake of Celtic progressing in Europe.  Why would they?

 

 

Your belief in trickle down benefit is almost touching, such is the naivete therein.

 

 

By the way, I'm not 'at it' at all here.  I sincerely believe every word of what I'm saying.

Sorry your getting mixed up, there's 3 separate details in my last post.

Never mentioned income regarding European results, I didn't touch on that, I'm  talking about just the European results I'm talking about they all do well in Europe then they will move up a level and then hopefully gain an extra place but all need to do well.

 

The Hibs, Rangers, Aberdeen heats etc.. is comments regarding the league and how they go about their business, one splashes out then others will stretch to what they can afford. Every team, including Celtic and Rangers have a level that they can reach regarding interest from crowds, how much money can be earned through gates etc... the same for the other teams but right now, it can be better. 

not looked into it for a while but do the SFA not distribute money give from UEFA for the Scottish teams progression the previous year, (allegedly). Suppose to go to each Scottish League team or do UEFA do it direct ?

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Sorry your getting mixed up, there's 3 separate details in my last post.

Never mentioned income regarding European results, I didn't touch on that, I'm  talking about just the European results I'm talking about they all do well in Europe then they will move up a level and then hopefully gain an extra place but all need to do well.

 

The Hibs, Rangers, Aberdeen heats etc.. is comments regarding the league and how they go about their business, one splashes out then others will stretch to what they can afford. Every team, including Celtic and Rangers have a level that they can reach regarding interest from crowds, how much money can be earned through gates etc... the same for the other teams but right now, it can be better. 

not looked into it for a while but do the SFA not distribute money give from UEFA for the Scottish teams progression the previous year, (allegedly). Suppose to go to each Scottish League team or do UEFA do it direct ?

I think there's very little basis for your belief that boosts at the top end see benefits elsewhere.

Was it really a good thing when other clubs "stretched" themselves before?  Do I need to list the clubs for whom that was calamitous?  

The money that reaches the 'game' for CL progress is a tiny fraction of that which goes to the club that gets there, so the net effect is that everyone else loses out massively.

 

My impression of the strength of Icelandic or Croatian football has nothing to do with how well their clubs do in Europe.  It's an impression however, that I wish others had of us.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Monkey Tennis

[Bestsinceslicebread]

18 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I think there's very little basis for your belief that boosts at the top end see benefits elsewhere.

Was it really a good thing when other clubs "stretched" themselves before?  Do I need to list the clubs for whom that was calamitous?  

The money that reaches the 'game' for CL progress is a tiny fraction of that which goes to the club that gets there, so the net effect is that everyone else loses out massively.

 

My impression of the strength of Icelandic or Croatian football has nothing to do with how well their clubs do in Europe.  It's an impression however, that I wish others had of us.

look your 'belief' is different from mine, no matter what reason you give, your trying to cover your own cracks. Any team whom 'stretched' themselves before and your so called list, is only either bad business management in some or every department and or some bad luck. The stupidity of it is , if every team in the Scottish premiership was given £40 million for that year. Of all the teams, one is going to fail, why because they will be relegated. Your deliberately not getting my point and a debate is good at every level and sometimes people change their views because of the other person reasonable conclusions to the other views, you my friend are talking rubbish in your conclusions or reasoning of why you don't support other teams.  If that is indeed your reasoning well it can be taken apart.    If your team is winning every week and every year, does it mean you have an amazing team, it might but then again it might not, as it  might mean that what you are playing is shite, and infact your team is shite, just they are the best of the shite.  If the other teams do well then your team will have to do better, thus the product will improve.

Here is a daft reason why I didn't want to play for teams,  Kilwinning came in for me with a good amount of money and I said no, why, because they played at the time in hoops shirts, sky blue hoops, I fekcing hates strips like that on any team.       I played with a Rossvale team and waited till the changed their hoops shirts to vertical. I don't dislike the teams nor did I want them to fail but I wouldn't play for them, that's a simple reason, some people might say its stupid but nope, I have the balls to say well that's the reason.

The fact is, simple fact, If all the Scottish teams, won every fekcing game this year in Europe, getting to the champions league final and Europa league final our coefficient would go up, then Scottish teams would go to a higher level, (less rounds) the following year, (that is a FACT, unless other nations close to Scotland did the exact same, but if Scottish teams dominated for the next 5 years then we would have teams starting in the group stages without any hard qualifying games (FACT).  I could go on but you get the drift if you don't, I'm genuinely worried for you.

its all hypothetical hat I say and you say but at the end of the day, middle of the day start of the day, if we all pull together and Scottish teams produce the good our coefficiency will go up and more opportunities will open up for all the teams.  As I said, many people like you who have that attitude for our teams in Europe I just shake my head (FACT).

your comment
The money that reaches the 'game' for CL progress is a tiny fraction of that which goes to the club that gets there, so the net effect is that everyone else loses out massively.

So all your really saying is bad management, ffs we all know the SFA and the SYFA are jobs for the boys and only looking after their own self interest.
In everyone's interest, I read this, some things I didn't like, some I did, but at the bottom read the last part of what participating teams success has on teams in their own nationals, (distributed by their national association.)
https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/newsid=2616265.html  (this reading form this link covers your first sentence as well)

 

your comment 
My impression of the strength of Icelandic or Croatian football has nothing to do with how well their clubs do in Europe.  It's an impression however, that I wish others had of us.

Do you mean the teams in their league or the national team. For example, again I will say Ukraine, they have two shit hot teams , top two in fact and the rest of the teams, well up to last year are crap, (yes I've watched a few matches in their top league). Just because they have an excellent two top teams doesn't mean they all are excellent. The national team is different and where better than Iceland and Croatia but Iceland changed their own youth system, not just pro youth but at grassroots and look where they are now for their size.

 

All in all, I don't expect you to change your view, I don't expect you to support other Scottish teams in Europe I just think its a shame and leave it at that

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Am Featha Taigh Nan Clach]

I don't believe a good coefficient and teams 'doing well' (relatively speaking) produces any huge trickle down effect.

However, one of Rangers/Celtic are going to win the league anyways as theydwarf the rest financially even without European football.

Our teams doing well in Europe opens up the opportunity for fans of an extra club to enjoy European football and it also allows Scottish players (mainly Celtic) to experience more games against higher level opposition which can only benefit the national team .

[Monkey Tennis]

19 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

look your 'belief' is different from mine, no matter what reason you give, your trying to cover your own cracks. Any team whom 'stretched' themselves before and your so called list is only either bad business management in some or every department and some bad luck. The stupidity of it is , if every team in the Scottish premiership was given £40 million for that year. Of all the teams, one is going to fail, why because they will be relegated. Your deliberately not getting my point and a debate is good at every level and sometimes people change their views because of the other person reasonable conclusions to the other views, you my friend are talking rubbish in your conclusions or reasoning of why you don't support other teams.  if that is indeed your reasoning well it can be taken apart.    If your team is winning every week and every year, does it mean you have an amazing team, it might but then again it might not as it  might mean that what you are playing is shite, and infact your team is shite just they are the best of the shite.  If the other teams do well then your team will have to do better, thus the product will improve.

Here is a daft reason why I didn't want to play for teams,  Kilwinning came in for me with a good amount of money and I said no, why, because they played at the time in hoops shirts, sky blue hoops, I fekcing hates strips like that on any team.       I played with a Rossvale team and waited till the changed their hoops shirts to vertical. I don't dislike the teams nor did I want them to fail but I wouldn't play for them, that's a simple reason, some people might say its stupid but nope, I have the balls to say well that's the reason.

The fact is, simple fact, If all the Scottish teams, won every fekcing game this year in Europe, getting to the champions league final and Europa league final our coefficient would go up, then Scottish teams would go to a higher level, (less rounds) the following year, (that is a FACT, unless other nations close to Scotland did the exact same, but if Scottish teams dominated for the next 5 we would have teams starting in the group stages without any hard qualifying games (FACT).  I could go on but you get the drift if you don't, I'm genuinely worried for you.

its all hypothetical hat I say and you say but at the end of the day, middle of the day start of the day, if we all pull together and Scottish teams produce the good our coefficiency will go up and more opportunities will open up for all the teams.  As I said, many people like you who have that attitude for our teams in Europe I just shake my head (FACT).

your comment
The money that reaches the 'game' for CL progress is a tiny fraction of that which goes to the club that gets there, so the net effect is that everyone else loses out massively.

So all your really saying is bad management, ffs we all know the SFA and the SYFA are jobs for the boys and only looking after their own self interest.
In everyone's interest, I read this, some things I didn't like, some I did, but at the bottom read the last part of what participating teams success has on teams in their own nationals, (distributed by their national association.)
https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/newsid=2616265.html  (this reading form this link covers your first sentence as well)

 

your comment 
My impression of the strength of Icelandic or Croatian football has nothing to do with how well their clubs do in Europe.  It's an impression however, that I wish others had of us.

Do you mean the teams in their league or the national team. For example, again I will say Ukraine, they have two shit hot teams , top two in fact and the rest of the teams, well up to last year are crap, (yes I've watched a few matches in their top league). Just because they have an excellent two top teams doesn't mean they all are excellent. The national team is different and where better than Iceland and Croatia but Iceland changed their own youth system, not just pro youth but at grassroots and look where they are now for their size.

 

All in all, I don't expect you to change your view, I don't expect you to support other Scottish teams in Europe I just think its a shame and leave it at that

 

Gosh.

I think I can safely say having waded through that, that we're operating at cross purposes here.

We really should just agree to differ.

 

I actually want the likes of Kilmarnock and Aberdeen to do well.  If you really want to understand where I'm coming from here (because you appear not to) then look at the 'Do you support Scottish sides in Europe?' thread.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

15 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Gosh.

I think I can safely say having waded through that, that we're operating at cross purposes here.

We really should just agree to differ.

 

I actually want the likes of Kilmarnock and Aberdeen to do well.  If you really want to understand where I'm coming from here (because you appear not to) then look at the 'Do you support Scottish sides in Europe?' thread.

lolol and yeah, you can see my post in it as well

anyways, it is what it is, our points have been processed, hopefully 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Bestsinceslicebread

[wastecoatwilly]

20 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

lolol and yeah, you can see my post in it as well

anyways, it is what it is, our points have been processed, hopefully 

I think the inward thinking of monkey is common when you see the poll of the "do you support all Scots teams thread".
I call it small country small mentality syndrome,football is our national sport and this attitude is what stops our game at all levels.
   

[54_and_counting]

I dare say it but monkey is right, aside from rangers and celtic, no other team has a realistic chance of getting to group stages of a euro tournament, so the likes of rangers and celtic making it to the group stages will not stop the majority of players fuckong off to the EFL 

If a player from say killie, hibs, hell even aberdeen get offered a decent shot at English football they will be off like a shot, they have a chance of either playing in the arse end of europe for a couple of games, or playing league 1 down south, on show at teams with bigger crowds and the chance of making a foothold in English football

Its a no brainer, and no amount of rangers or celtic making group stages will stop that 

[Monkey Tennis]

Coefficient Wankers!

[GordonS]

On 09/08/2019 at 19:58, Bestsinceslicebread said:

lololl I hope you didn't, nearly choke there while sipping yer glass o water  

On a serious note, probably with that attitude which is quite common, I'm not surprised Scottish football is at the level it is at this moment.
Any coaching staff that I worked with who had that attitude I would get rid of straight away, no hesitation. They are no use to Scottish football and would be to the detriment of youth talent we try to produce. If every Scottish team in Europe did well it would only benefit teams in Scottish football. Celtic, Rangers and Aberdeen and other clubs want each other to do well as they know they will be the beneficiaries as well but I dread to think what they think of that attitude.

Genuinely such a shame

What a pile of absolute w**k.

Guys like MT don't want those clubs to lose because they're just being bitter, backward or parochial. It's because the cash from success in Europe is disproportionate in a country like Scotland. It's bad enough that we have two teams that hoover up the resources, European money just makes it much, much worse.

If there were no financial benefit for clubs progressing in Europe I would be fine with the OF doing whatever. I'm sure MT would too. It's all about the millions.

There is no overall benefit for Scottish football in Celtic or Rangers progressing in Europe. None. In fact it's very likely harmful over all. Suggesting that people who are awake to this reality aren't fit to coach kids is fucking risible.

And not for nothing, but when Celtic and Rangers were at their wealthiest it was their worst time ever for developing young Scottish talent. So if you want to give a hand-wringing, boo-hoo speil about the poor little kiddies and the adults coaching them, start with that.

With coaches like you it's no wonder Scotland is one of the biggest underachievers in world football. 

[GordonS]

On 10/08/2019 at 14:46, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Sorry your getting mixed up, there's 3 separate details in my last post.

Never mentioned income regarding European results, I didn't touch on that, I'm  talking about just the European results I'm talking about they all do well in Europe then they will move up a level and then hopefully gain an extra place but all need to do well.

European football is an irrelevance to all but two Scottish teams. It's just a handful of games, maybe with a nice trip or two, before they're out by September. Scottish clubs are to European football what Burntisland Shipyard are to the Scottish Cup.

And the reason for that is nothing to do with money or the mythical "prestige".

[Bestsinceslicebread]

22 hours ago, GordonS said:

What a pile of absolute w**k.

Guys like MT don't want those clubs to lose because they're just being bitter, backward or parochial. It's because the cash from success in Europe is disproportionate in a country like Scotland. It's bad enough that we have two teams that hoover up the resources, European money just makes it much, much worse.

If there were no financial benefit for clubs progressing in Europe I would be fine with the OF doing whatever. I'm sure MT would too. It's all about the millions.

There is no overall benefit for Scottish football in Celtic or Rangers progressing in Europe. None. In fact it's very likely harmful over all. Suggesting that people who are awake to this reality aren't fit to coach kids is fucking risible.

And not for nothing, but when Celtic and Rangers were at their wealthiest it was their worst time ever for developing young Scottish talent. So if you want to give a hand-wringing, boo-hoo speil about the poor little kiddies and the adults coaching them, start with that.

With coaches like you it's no wonder Scotland is one of the biggest underachievers in world football. 

Well, well well, how low can the slagging get on pie and Bovril, bringing kids into it.
MT has given his reasons for his views, which to many can be seen as debatable and I put my point for his reasoning and why I believed it was flawed, so yes you might be right but he kept persisting on his view, so we agreed to disagree. I will not try and force someone to change their mind, I will put my view across, listen to theirs and reason with it and if I change my mind to agree with someone then Ill say thanks for shedding some light on something with more detail so I can change my view. But MT's view I believe is flawed and he doesn't so that's the end of it and we both agreed to disagree.

Your comment about no overall benefit is wrong, factually wrong but I aint gonna call you names etc...as I don't see the benefit of name calling. If Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen, Ki,marnock did well this year and the next year and next year after, Scottish teams would gain an extra place at the European Champions league and an extra place at the Europa League, so potentially more Scottish teams will benefit, (that's all is meant by my comments), and then saying guys who aren't awake are not fit to coach kids, pmslllllllllllll omgggggggg, thank god you said that, was worried that you wur gonna say I wouldn't be fit to drink a pint of milk or eat 3 square meals a day, so glad you picked kids . With the 'Celtic and Rangers' were at their wealthiest comment, (when you talking) its a different era in coaching, everything has changed  since those times, well I believe there has.

and finally the comment
With coaches like you it's no wonder Scotland is one of the biggest underachievers in world football. 

You making comments to a guy whom you don't know, saying he's the reason Scotland is where it is in world football, I don't normally laugh out loud in here but my glass eye is pouring buckets and my wooden peg leg has just stuck in the mouse hole on the floor lolol.
Factually all I've done since coaching at grassroots football is develop lads to go to a higher level, either Junior or Senior. Maybe giving some lads a chance that if they had a different coach then they might not have made it, or if they had a different coach they would have developed better.

The best way if you don't like someone or their view or anything else like that, don't be shallow and small minded coming out with nasty remarks about them, (I try not to be if I disagree), in regarding children, people don't look upon you in a good light. Just put your point across and that's it, no need to be nasty, blaming someone you haven't a scooby about for something that is untrue. (oh by the way I wasn't name calling I was just being factually correct with your view from when I read your reply).
 

On a different note, still connected when people say disparity with the big teams, Celtic and Rangers but its the same abroad is it not, every country in the same boat, Spain 'Real Madrid' and 'Barcelona' - Portugal 'Benfica', 'Porto'. You could go through each country and pick a couple of top two teams out but obviously all of different standards. They all do well, make extra money than the other teams who come and go while the top two usually stay where they are.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Bestsinceslicebread

[thepundit]

Good result for Rangers yesterday.

Celtic lost out on big money and will probably get more coefficient points in the Europa League anyway.

Win win.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

16 hours ago, GordonS said:

European football is an irrelevance to all but two Scottish teams. It's just a handful of games, maybe with a nice trip or two, before they're out by September. Scottish clubs are to European football what Burntisland Shipyard are to the Scottish Cup.

And the reason for that is nothing to do with money or the mythical "prestige".

Honestly, what are you on, your angry at summit and not reading what is meant by peoples posts.
In the context of my reply to someone else, it was making him aware as per previous comments about coefficiency, if Scottish Teams all do well in the next few years that an extra Scottish place can be earned in the European cups and less games to play. That's all is meant by that post, nothing more, nothing less.  Your daft reply has nothing to do what I said or was trying to convey

But your comment on irrelevance lol Well Kilmarnock know they had a bad result but they made 220,000 euros for qualifying for the first round qualifying and Aberdeen have done well.
I think both committee, management, players will disagree with you there unless they have a really bad result, which will hurt fans and management.

Just so you know.

UEFA Europa League – champions and main paths
Each club participating in the qualifying rounds will receive the following amounts per round played:
• preliminary round – €220,000
• first qualifying round – €240,000
• second qualifying round – €260,000
• third qualifying round – €280,000
• play-offs – €300,000 (eliminated clubs only). No solidarity payment will be made to the winners of this round. However, they will retain the payments received for the preliminary, first, second and third qualifying rounds, as applicable.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does that mean both Rangers and Aberdeen have made 1 million euros each for making the third round qualifying, each round added together ? 

Yes Scottish clubs are seen as insignificant by UEFA as they are only interested in the big teams, so why are you saying this, think most of us all agree with that unless your delusional

 

16 hours ago, GordonS said:

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Ginaro]

Update after this week's games. Close to moving up another spot, if Cluj hadn't scored that late goal then we'd be in 18th. Fortunately we still have a decent chance of getting two teams into the EL group stage, which will be needed if we are to move up further and possibly fight for 15th.

13		Czech Republic	7.300	5.500	5.500	6.500	0.900	25.700 +0.200	CL PO
14		Denmark	5.500	8.500	5.250	4.875	1.375	25.500 +0.125	EL PO
15		Cyprus	3.000	5.500	7.000	6.125	3.250	24.875 +0.500	CL PO + EL PO
16		Greece	5.400	5.800	5.100	5.100	2.100	23.500 +0.500	CL PO + 2 EL PO
17		Croatia	4.500	5.125	5.125	5.750	1.875	22.375 +0.500	CL PO + EL PO
18		Serbia	4.250	2.875	6.375	6.000	2.375	21.875 +0.125	CL PO + EL PO
19		Scotland	3.000	4.375	4.000	6.750	3.625	21.750 +0.250	2 EL PO
20		Norway	7.250	1.375	4.000	5.375	3.250	21.250 +0.375	CL PO + EL PO
21		Switzerland	5.300	4.300	6.500	3.900	0.600	20.600 +0	CL PO + 2 EL GS

Edited August 15, 2019 by Ginaro

[wastecoatwilly]

18 countries out of Europe

[wastecoatwilly]

13 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

if Cluj hadn't scored that late goal then we'd be in 18th.

Plus an Aberdeen win but you knew that.

[bennett]

Just doing our bit....