Coefficientwatch

[HibeeJibee]

Tonight joins exceptionally rarefied set of occasions:


Midweeks when 2 Scottish clubs won groupstage games:
#1 ... 25 Nov 2004 ... UC - Basle 1-2 Hearts / Rangers 3-0 Grazer
#2 ... 17-19 Oct 2006 ... CL - Celtic 3-0 Benfica ... UC - Livorno 2-3 Rangers
#3 ... 2+3 Oct 2007 ... CL - Lyon 0-3 Rangers / Celtic 1-0 Benfica
#4 ... 7 Nov 2019 ... EL - Lazio 1-2 Celtic / Rangers 2-0 Porto
 

Edited November 7, 2019 by HibeeJibee

[GordonS]

[HibeeJibee]

4 minutes ago, GordonS said:

We were actually 3rd from 1963 to 1965 and again in 1969 & 1970 - but that's only by "retrospectively" running the coefficient system backwards (it began in 1975). Clearly we aren't going to see those days again and historically likes of Russia + Ukraine, Czech Rep + Slovakia, Serbia + Croatia, etc. were single countries. Nevertheless positive.

[charger29]

It didn't.

I was sure there was something 20-30 years ago. Must have been thinking of the previous rule for clubs rankings which including a percentage of country coefficient.

[HibeeJibee]

1 minute ago, The_Judge said:

How the hell can that holiday island Cyprus still be ahead of us....and Greece, Croatia and Switzerland!!

Cyprus had the same kind of lead over us in 2017-18 as we have over them this season. I think people look down on them as they're an ex-British colony and Mediterranean island but you can't really fault their results. Few years ago APOEL made EL groups, next season topped their section and reached Last 16 then next season made CL groups. Limassol also reached EL groups in 2017-18. Last season both Limassal + Larnaca made EL groups. This season APOEL made EL groups and are 2nd with Luxembourg Dudelange (A) + Sevilla (H) left.

[atfccfc]

42 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

Up to 16th

https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/crank2020.html

Is it realistic to get past Denmark and the Czech Republic this season. Baring in mind Slavia Prague will most probably not get European football after Christmas and Copenhagen are doing well in the Europa league? 

[Ginaro]

Greece look out of the race for 15th unless somehow Olympiacos can beat Red Star to 3rd and the EL R32 spot. Croatia could close the gap if Zagreb get the CL last 16 bonus points.

1 hour ago, atfccfc said:

Is it realistic to get past Denmark and the Czech Republic this season. Baring in mind Slavia Prague will most probably not get European football after Christmas and Copenhagen are doing well in the Europa league? 

We need 3.5 wins to get past the Czechs, assuming Slavia lose both games, which is doable. Denmark will be a lot harder as Copenhagen are likely to pick up a win against Lugano which almost guarantees them a R32 place, in which case we'd need 4 wins.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Ginaro

[bennett]

1 hour ago, RedLichtie86 said:

Monkey Tennis must be crying himself to sleep tonight

Sevco got a great win, he'll have a few jars in celebration....

 

[tarapoa]

9 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Cyprus had the same kind of lead over us in 2017-18 as we have over them this season. I think people look down on them as they're an ex-British colony and Mediterranean island but you can't really fault their results. Few years ago APOEL made EL groups, next season topped their section and reached Last 16 then next season made CL groups. Limassol also reached EL groups in 2017-18. Last season both Limassal + Larnaca made EL groups. This season APOEL made EL groups and are 2nd with Luxembourg Dudelange (A) + Sevilla (H) left.

When we played Apollon Limassol, their team was full of players from S.America, Iberia and the Balkans.

Think there is serious money in the top few clubs there.

 

[Raith_Raver]

1 hour ago, tarapoa said:

When we played Apollon Limassol, their team was full of players from S.America, Iberia and the Balkans.

Think there is serious money in the top few clubs there.

 

I remember Anorthosis Famagusta having a cracking team

 

[Bully Wee Villa]

How do they get serious money? They can't get much in the way of crowds or TV deals given the small population. If it is from private investors how do they meet UEFA's FFP requirements? 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Bully Wee Villa

[Rodhull]

1 hour ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

How do they get serious money? They can't much in the way of crowds or TV deals given the small population. If it is from private investors how do they meet UEFA's FFP requirements? 

Probably the same way Man City do. Inflated sponsorship deals etc.

[Rodhull]

I see the statement league guy has managed to wind up a lot of OF fans on twitter by daring to suggest this might not make that much of a difference to the other clubs in Scotland.

Don't know why I still find it shocking how entitled and monumentally stupid some of them are. Not that the second of those at least is limited to just OF fans of course.

Going by a number of the responses if the other side's were just willing to spend more money than they have and 'try playing good football' it would solve all the problems.

[gannonball]

15 hours ago, RedLichtie86 said:

Monkey Tennis must be crying himself to sleep tonight

He strikes me as a man who would do that most nights

[HibeeJibee]

2 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

How do they get serious money? They can't get much in the way of crowds or TV deals given the small population. If it is from private investors how do they meet UEFA's FFP requirements? 

APOEL have averaged 4,000-8,000 domestically in recent years... AEK Larnaca 2,000-4,000... Apollon Limassol 2,000-3,000.

Been allegations of tax avoidance, disguised state subsidy, dodgy money, etc.

e.g.

http://cyprus-mail.com/2017/08/22/view-tv-football-money-debate-complex-seems/

FIRST the auditor-general and then the finance minister, Harris Georgiades, decided to express their outrage over the silly money Cyta was discussing paying some football clubs for television rights. Cyta is after all a public organisation and state officials have every right to take a position on how it should spend public money.

This is a recent development as in the past Cyta was wasting unjustifiably large amounts of money sponsoring tiny, provincial clubs. The argument used by politicians in defence of this practice was that the authority was making a social contribution by funding football. This would have had some merit if football clubs had academies developing local talent, but this was never the case. Even the small provincial clubs line up teams made up of eight or nine foreign players so the argument about social contribution is total nonsense.

Odysseas Michaelides issued direct warnings to the Cyta board that was considering paying champions Apoel €3 million annually for a three-year period, starting from 2019, saying it should not spend such money unless it could prove it made financial sense. The cautious Georgiades fully agreed, speaking about “moves which go beyond financial logic”.

Cyprus football has been living beyond financial logic for many years. Most clubs are cash-strapped and debt-ridden, having been living beyond their means for years, depending on state hand-outs, over-generous sponsorship and broadcasting deals with Cyta and tolerant authorities that turn a blind eye to their tax debts. It is not a sustainable model and does not serve our society as most of the money goes towards paying foreign players.

Yet while Cyta may have in the past squandered tens of millions every year in handouts to clubs, now its actions could have some financial justification because if it loses the broadcasting right for Apoel matches to one of its competitors (Cablenet is said to have offered Apoel €3m per year), it could lose a lot of other business. Companies often sell television subscriptions on the strength of their football coverage in packages that might include internet and mobile telephony. Having broadcasting rights of a popular team is a marketing tool that helps sell other services.

[Ray Patterson]

Worth noting that 13th might be enough for our Cup Winners (or 3rd in Prem) to enter the EL Playoffs (hence at worst being in ECL Groups) automatically from 21-22. Depending on CL/EL/ECL winners etc.

Edited November 11, 2019 by ArabAuslander

[SlipperyP]

Has nobody mentioned that Celtic are the No.1 ranked team this season for points so far.

[TavTastic]

6 hours ago, ArabAuslander said:

Worth noting that 13th might be enough for our Cup Winners (or 3rd in Prem) to enter the EL Playoffs (hence at worst being in ECL Groups) automatically from 21-22. Depending on CL/EL/ECL winners etc.

Where would 4th enter the ECL in that same scenario?

[Ross.]

On 08/11/2019 at 09:15, tarapoa said:

When we played Apollon Limassol, their team was full of players from S.America, Iberia and the Balkans.

Think there is serious money in the top few clubs there.

Not sure there is serious money there, but they don't seem overly bothered by work permit issues and they are certainly more than a little lax in their tax arrangements. I'm not certain if it is still the case, but certainly a few years ago it was possible for individuals to contract themselves to an employer via a limited company, which would receive the cash and pay it back out as a dividend. Meant the end result was the individual essentially paying 10% tax. There were almost no other deductions made. Means a player earning 3 grand a week there would be taking home the same as a player on around 5 grand a week in Scotland, which is a significant advantage. As I say, I don't know if it is still possible for them to get away with it, there was talk of reforms following the financial issues there a couple of years back. I do know we still have a significant number of financial advisors registering with us from Cyprus, so there must still be some perks to operating from there.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Ross.

[tarapoa]

3 hours ago, Ross. said:

Not sure there is serious money there, but they don't seem overly bothered by work permit issues and they are certainly more than a little lax in their tax arrangements. I'm not certain if it is still the case, but certainly a few years ago it was possible for individuals to contract themselves to an employer via a limited company, which would receive the cash and pay it back out as a dividend. Meant the end result was the individual essentially paying 10% tax. There were almost no other deductions made. Means a player earning 3 grand a week there would be taking home the same as a player on around 5 grand a week in Scotland, which is a significant advantage. As I say, I don't know if it is still possible for them to get away with it, there was talk of reforms following the financial issues there a couple of years back. I do know we still have a significant number of financial advisors registering with us from Cyprus, so there must still be some perks to operating from there.

Sounds like some of the folks that register as limited company contractors, very prevalent in the N.Sea oil & gas industry - maybe the Cypriot version of the IR35 rule is about to catch up with them too........