welshbairn Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Just now, McSpreader said: ^^^ What you try to do do when you can't argue with truth . Poor you ! Rational argument is futile with a Brexiteer who can't come up with a single reason why he or anyone else is disadvantaged by being a member, and when claiming it's undemocratic refuses to comment on why we shouldn't just transfer more powers from the Council of Ministers to the European Parliament. And now you're saying Europe is too tiny and feeble to compete with the major powers so we should retreat to little england. Rule Britannia! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Fullerene said: Corbyn is unlikely to stand down soon because that would be a betrayal of the members who voted for him. However, those members voted for him as a refreshing change from other parts of the Labour Party that seemed too similar to the Tories. If Labour keeps voting with the Tories on everything to do with Europe, they will eventually conclude that he is not the refreshing change that they thought he was. I don't know how long that will take but it will happen I suspect. I think a narrow subsection of the predominantly middle class commentariat might turn away from Corbyn over Europe because it's the first time politics has affected their lives but I doubt the rest of the population who can see beyond the European issue will realise his politics and policies are vastly different to the Tories. I don't particularly like or agree with Corbyn's position on Europe but faced with the choice of a genuinely social democratic manifesto or more of the same neoliberal scraps from the table we've been accustomed to the last 20 years it's an easy choice for me... Even if it means engaging with the abysmal Scottish Labour party. Edited July 29, 2017 by NotThePars 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 1 hour ago, DublinMagyar said: You've omitted the USA from the totalitarian list, thus, blowing your own argument on what it takes to compete. Not really because the USA is a totally different entity both politically and ethnically but you know that. The USA is not a cobbling together of individual nations and distinct cultures in the same way Russia and China is. That's the difference. The EU needs to become more like Russia and China to continue. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Where to begin? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Fucking hell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 If the Tories persist with this tax haven hard Brexit then there's an opportunity for Labour to develop a reluctant Remain position that can see it stopped. The problem of suggesting that Labour need to shift Corbyn to become a pro-Europe party is that they owe their social democratic manifesto to him and they'll shed tons of votes, quite rightly, if they go back to the mess they were before the election. I thought Corbyn was supposed to be a Socialist and the Social democrats were the enemy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: Rational argument is futile with a Brexiteer who can't come up with a single reason why he or anyone else is disadvantaged by being a member, and when claiming it's undemocratic refuses to comment on why we shouldn't just transfer more powers from the Council of Ministers to the European Parliament. And now you're saying Europe is too tiny and feeble to compete with the major powers so we should retreat to little england. Rule Britannia! The UK and myself are disadvantaged on many levels. The inability to forge our own trade deals is one. Having to bail out basket case economies is another. Having to pay more in to the EU than we get out of it is another. The influx of cheap labour and it's suppression of wages in semi-skilled and construction trades is another. Having to suffer the snide anti-British prejudices of the Eurocrats is another. Having to stand by whilst we implement every EU law, regulation and diktat to the letter whilst the rest of the EU flouts and ignores them. Having to pay in to the C.A.P which is designed to prop up and preserve French agriculture Avant Tout ! And, of course the surrendering of our Fishing Rights in British waters to be parcelled out to other EU countries.....notably Dutch and Spanish fishing fleets. Also, I don't say the EU is feeble I simply say that I don't buy into the construction of a European superpower as being a necessary or inevitable consequence of EU membership. The last thing the world needs is another superpower, yet that is what Junker, Merkel, Barnier et al intend to create. I agree the EU should transfer more powers to the European Parliament but Europe is a behemoth and I don't feel represented in that Parliament. I am too far removed from it and it is too diluted by it's vastness to represent me on any meaningful level and the voting in the European parliament is all based on political groupings mostly toeing party lines as opposed to any real political scrutiny. I also refuse point blank to accept your argument that Leaving is retreating in to Little Anything. It's simply saying the EU is not for us but to wish it the best of luck or whatever and saying we can now be masters of our own destiny. Why do you struggle with that ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 23 minutes ago, DublinMagyar said: Where to begin? You don't have what it takes ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booker-T Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, McSpreader said: The UK and myself are disadvantaged on many levels. The inability to forge our own trade deals is one. Having to bail out basket case economies is another. Having to pay more in to the EU than we get out of it is another. The influx of cheap labour and it's suppression of wages in semi-skilled and construction trades is another. Having to suffer the snide anti-British prejudices of the Eurocrats is another. Having to stand by whilst we implement every EU law, regulation and diktat to the letter whilst the rest of the EU flouts and ignores them. Having to pay in to the C.A.P which is designed to prop up and preserve French agriculture Avant Tout ! And, of course the surrendering of our Fishing Rights in British waters to be parcelled out to other EU countries.....notably Dutch and Spanish fishing fleets. Also, I don't say the EU is feeble I simply say that I don't buy into the construction of a European superpower as being a necessary or inevitable consequence of EU membership. The last thing the world needs is another superpower, yet that is what Junker, Merkel, Barnier et al intend to create. I agree the EU should transfer more powers to the European Parliament but Europe is a behemoth and I don't feel represented in that Parliament. I am too far removed from it and it is too diluted by it's vastness to represent me on any meaningful level and the voting in the European parliament is all based on political groupings mostly toeing party lines as opposed to any real political scrutiny. I also refuse point blank to accept your argument that Leaving is retreating in to Little Anything. It's simply saying the EU is not for us but to wish it the best of luck or whatever and saying we can now be masters of our own destiny. Why do you struggle with that ? what you are saying is: 1. they're out to get us (moronic stance, but they will be out to get us when we leave and rightfully so) 2. america is excellent as the world's sole superpower and Russia or China 2nd will be hunky dory (all 3 of those powers have serious human rights issues ) 3. European parliament does not represent me (fucking vote, and vote for somebody who will turn up for work) 4. We gave away our fishing waters (the deal our government makes will not be good for our control of fishing waters) Edited July 29, 2017 by Booker-T 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 I'm not saying any of those things but that's obviously how you've chosen to read it. That's the funny thing about this forum. It's supposed to be about debate but what you all really want is an echo chamber and for your prejudices to not be challenged. Anyway, it's late..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 22 minutes ago, McSpreader said: FTFY ... again 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booker-T Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 5 minutes ago, McSpreader said: I'm not saying any of those things but that's obviously how you've chosen to read it. That's the funny thing about this forum. It's supposed to be about debate but what you all really want is an echo chamber and for your prejudices to not be challenged. Anyway, it's late..... brexiteer moaning about prejudice and echo chambers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 You don't have what it takes ! You take your spade away? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 The UK and myself are disadvantaged on many levels. The inability to forge our own trade deals is one. Having to bail out basket case economies is another. Having to pay more in to the EU than we get out of it is another. The influx of cheap labour and it's suppression of wages in semi-skilled and construction trades is another. Having to suffer the snide anti-British prejudices of the Eurocrats is another. Having to stand by whilst we implement every EU law, regulation and diktat to the letter whilst the rest of the EU flouts and ignores them. Having to pay in to the C.A.P which is designed to prop up and preserve French agriculture Avant Tout ! And, of course the surrendering of our Fishing Rights in British waters to be parcelled out to other EU countries.....notably Dutch and Spanish fishing fleets. Also, I don't say the EU is feeble I simply say that I don't buy into the construction of a European superpower as being a necessary or inevitable consequence of EU membership. The last thing the world needs is another superpower, yet that is what Junker, Merkel, Barnier et al intend to create. I agree the EU should transfer more powers to the European Parliament but Europe is a behemoth and I don't feel represented in that Parliament. I am too far removed from it and it is too diluted by it's vastness to represent me on any meaningful level and the voting in the European parliament is all based on political groupings mostly toeing party lines as opposed to any real political scrutiny. I also refuse point blank to accept your argument that Leaving is retreating in to Little Anything. It's simply saying the EU is not for us but to wish it the best of luck or whatever and saying we can now be masters of our own destiny. Why do you struggle with that ? The Tories and top 1% are master of your destiny now.Have fun with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Free movement of EU citizens to the UK ends on March 2019. And vice-versa..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG_03 Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40772332Sigh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 A clue as to why the rich were so desperate to leave. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 29 minutes ago, McQuade said: Time for an Irish passports The rational side of my brain is beginning to regret knocking back pursuing one of those when they tightened up the great-grandparent angle to the regulations back in the 1980s, but then the visceral side to my brain kicks in over The Soldier's Song being my national anthem and I remember why the chances of my name ever appearing in the RoI's foreign births register were somewhere between exceedingly slim and none. Not sure which will be the stronger of the two responses when I am standing in the other passports queue at Frankfurt Airport or somewhere like that in another couple of years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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