Old Firm Colts in L2

[AlansHotBath]

35 minutes ago, Cowden316 said:

Playing devil's advocate the proposed £15000 per year for teams goes a long way for clubs coffers due to guaranteeing they would purchase a minimum of 250 away tickets and tempting to accept. 

Whilst I am in favour of the financial improvements the colt teams would generate I am certainly opposed to the fact that if either one of them finished bottom then it would be the next team in line that would go into the Pyramid playoffs or promotion at the other end of the table.  I think this would be extremely unfair to the respective clubs in that league and against sporting integrity. 

Hadn't heard this aspect of it before, what a fucking joke. What does it teach younger players about the nature of competitive sport if there's no penalties for finishing last?

I can see it discouraging teams from the HL and LL at the same time, if you knew you could knock your pan in all season to avoid finishing bottom and still end up back in the playoffs.

It'll happen because the Old Firm want it to, though 

[sjc]

4 minutes ago, Clyde01 said:

We are constantly debating the many, many sensible objections as to why this is an abhorrent idea.

Has anyone yet presented an argument for this plan? What is the objective? As I have stated many times before would Callum McGregor (as an example) be a more established player for club or country if he had knocked about in League 2 for a few seasons instead of being loaned down south and to Rosenborg. Of course not, the whole thinking behind this is questionable at best.

Would that be the plan to continue with total slaughter until everyone's dead except Celtic, Rangers*, the SFA and their tortoise, Alan?

[Aubrey Maturin]

2 minutes ago, sjc said:

Would that be the plan to continue with total slaughter until everyone's dead except Celtic, Rangers*, the SFA and their tortoise, Alan?

Dammit Blackadder you know the plan too.

[peternapper]

Quote

 

The ticket buying bribe would have to be offset against supporters like myself not continuing to support our present team. Meantime I spend £240 per year on our lotto draw & around the same for my season ticket, if this goes through I will not be spending that money at the club & will quite possibly either migrate to a local HFL or junior team, it would not take a lot of folk to do similar & the clubs would have sold their soul for next to nothing.

[sjc]

5 minutes ago, Tynieness said:

Dammit Blackadder you know the plan too.

Security isn't a dirty word, Blackadder. Crevice is a dirty word, but security isn't.

[Poet of the Macabre]

This is an absolute joke and any club backing these plans should be totally shunned. An absolute disgrace if they're willing to assume the position for a small bribe.

Improving young players - utter shite. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

6 minutes ago, peternapper said:

The ticket buying bribe would have to be offset against supporters like myself not continuing to support our present team. Meantime I spend £240 per year on our lotto draw & around the same for my season ticket, if this goes through I will not be spending that money at the club & will quite possibly either migrate to a local HFL or junior team, it would not take a lot of folk to do similar & the clubs would have sold their soul for next to nothing.

They will be banking on this being an empty threat.

Another view they will have is the posts here are not representative of  the "silent majority" who don't post on here and will turn up through thick and thin.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Sergeant Wilson

[Gnash]

51 minutes ago, Cowden316 said:

Playing devil's advocate the proposed £15000 per year for teams goes a long way for clubs coffers due to guaranteeing they would purchase a minimum of 250 away tickets and tempting to accept. 

Whilst I am in favour of the financial improvements the colt teams would generate I am certainly opposed to the fact that if either one of them finished bottom then it would be the next team in line that would go into the Pyramid playoffs or promotion at the other end of the table.  I think this would be extremely unfair to the respective clubs in that league and against sporting integrity. 

 

 

The clubs would most likely be worse off because the number of games would be lower.  There would only 27 real games and another 6 that would pay a total of £15k (assuming they are all away games for the 'colts'), plus whatever few home fans don't boycott those games.  That's most likely a loss of revenue, even before you take in account fans that have had enough and stop going altogether.  And I suspect they would remove the 250 fans guarantee after the trial period.

[shull]

Forty Clubs in  Scotland should be aiming to have 40 Clubs in Scotland only. by removing Sevco and Celtic, not increasing it to 44.

[LIVIFOREVER]

The more I look at this the more farcical it becomes. From what I read there will be no promotion or relegation for these B teams, but they are still competing for points, so your team could be relegated by losing to them whilst finishing above them in the league, bloody hell!!

 

Tbh as farcical as this is, you'd be better making it that they have no bearing on any of the other 10 teams results and have games against them not counting for league points, it is farcical but so is having them playing in League 2 in the first place, and allowing them to play against teams for points but not be relegated, yet affect results that can relegate another team.

[BFTD]

2 hours ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

What is the actual point in this?

Providing a method for Rangers and Celtic to keep their bloated squads match fit. If this ever happens, the 'colt' sides will absolutely be used to stuff the over-age players they've signed from clubs like, ooh, Aberdeen, but have no intention of regularly playing in the first team.

Shame Celtic seem to be financially secure for the time being. A wee administration would see colt teams disappearing again for a while, considering that Rangers are still incapable of leeching the other clubs' best players/managers.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Really you'd be better having games against the B teams not counting for league points so they aren't fecking up the league, the whole thing is a joke anyway so why not just have games against them being classed as closed door bounce games.

[strichener]

1 hour ago, Cowden316 said:

Playing devil's advocate the proposed £15000 per year for teams goes a long way for clubs coffers due to guaranteeing theymatch would purchase a minimum of 250 away tickets and tempting to accept. 

Whilst I am in favour of the financial improvements the colt teams would generate I am certainly opposed to the fact that if either one of them finished bottom then it would be the next team in line that would go into the Pyramid playoffs or promotion at the other end of the table.  I think this would be extremely unfair to the respective clubs in that league and against sporting integrity. 

 

 

If our clubs need to support this for 250 away tickets per match (Which would equate to £12k for Peterhead) then they should be angling for a fairer distribution of the existing pool money.  Shite idea, shite incentive, sums up Scottish Football really.

[Jacksgranda]

21 minutes ago, Gnash said:

The clubs would most likely be worse off because the number of games would be lower.  There would only 27 real games and another 6 that would pay a total of £15k (assuming they are all away games for the 'colts'), plus whatever few home fans don't boycott those games.  That's most likely a loss of revenue, even before you take in account fans that have had enough and stop going altogether.  And I suspect they would remove the 250 fans guarantee after the trial period.

Surely not??!!

[Pride Of The Clyde]

If Clyde are in favour of this nonsense i would be astounded and disgusted after their stance previously. Time for fans to make their voices heard and let their boards know  in no uncertain terms how they feel, whether that be contacting their club or letting them know on matchdays. The whole idea is a total farce which as i can see makes no sense, not one positive can be gained from this whole idea.

If we are looking to advance the game in Scotland the first thing needing addressed is the the removing the dinosaurs that are in charge.

[beaver1]

There are many other ways to redirect £10,000 to the lower league clubs e.g. a fairer allocation from the central pot.

I am against colt teams but I would be in favour of a more regulated loan system e.g. each club puts those players they want to develop via the colt system forward as being available for loan. You could then have, similar to the US, a draft system. Bottom of the league gets first choice for example. You would then end up with 4 or 5 “colts” playing in a team with experienced pros, as opposed to playing in a team of kids.

I’d happily watch players like Paul McMullan and Harry Paton develop with us before going on to bigger and better things.

[Fat Sally]

A reminder that 74.4% of respondents to a Supporters Direct survey rejected the idea of Colts teams in the league. Would assume the majority of people who backed the idea were supporters of Old Firm clubs.

Clyde provided the largest number of responses to the survey.

http://www.scottishsupporters.net/results-of-supporter-led-consultation-on-colt-team-proposals/

Supporters being ignored again.

[JakeSAFC]

A reminder that 74.4% of respondents to a Supporters Direct survey rejected the idea of Colts teams in the league. Would assume the majority of people who backed the idea were supporters of Old Firm clubs.
Clyde provided the largest number of responses to the survey.
http://www.scottishsupporters.net/results-of-supporter-led-consultation-on-colt-team-proposals/
Supporters being ignored again.

Of course we're being ignored. If we're not supporters of the manky 2 then we are irrelevant.

[lubo_blaha]

Reasons why this is stupid:

• There is no evidence to suggest that having quality pro youth players playing against League 2 part-time players will aid their development. Young players with ambitions to play in the Premiership (or above) and for the national team should be playing at Championship or League 1 level at least if they're not getting into their own team. The current loan system works fine as young players get to learn alongside older players at a level suitable to them.
• Fans won't turn up. Rangers and Celtic fans have shown that they're not arsed about their youth teams and the challenge cup games involving these teams had pitiful attendances. I would hazard a guess that the 250 ticket guarantee wouldn't cover the drop in crowds at some clubs against these sides.
• The vast majority of youth teams in the challenge cup were eliminated in the first round unless they were playing HL/LL clubs.
• If they were seriously doing this to improve the national team, why not put an SFA youth select in the league instead of two club sides who have no guarantee of playing Scottish eligible players?
• The clubs have been parachuted into L2 instead of the LL which is incredibly unfair on clubs in this league who have ambitions of playing league football. They are also apparently immune to relegation meaning the third bottom club in the league could now go down.  
• The players can only move between colt and senior sides during transfer windows. The next Kieran Tierney could miss out on their chance to break into the first team because they're stuck playing in League 2 until the end of the season. If they just loaned players to a lower league side suitable to their level then they could recall them if they need them. 

At best, this is a lazy attempt to copy Germany and Spain. They have B teams in lower leagues so obviously this is the main reason why they are successful. At worst, this is being done to pander to two sides in order to aid their failing youth set ups and give the SPFL a safety net if they finally f*ck off to England.  

[BFTD]

To be fair to the Celtic/Rangers fans (yeah, I know), I don't see them really giving too much of a shit about this whole thing. No doubt they'd be happy to be given even more of an advantage, if asked, but I haven't seen anyone expressing delight at the idea of this happening. The attendances at their colt teams' Clownshoes Cup games attests to that.

This is entirely an invention of "important" clubs' chairmen, for purely financial reasons, and it's not just the obvious ones either. I've a horrible feeling that our chairman likes this idea.