Has there ever been a worse 'championship' season?

[TheMessiah]

 

6 minutes ago, Shandon Par said:

St Mirren remind me of Dunfermline under Stephen Kenny. A team load of new players, an exciting spell for a couple of months, combined with a good cup run but ultimately it was relegation and despair.

That was in the SPL though, for us to get relegated from this league we had to have half of our squad ripped out, the players unsure about whether they would get paid/have a club next season, horrific performances, 2  awful individual games as well as a points deduction, and that was to go down through the playoffs, to get relegated from this league you have to be total shit, to get relegated automatically you have to be unfathomably shit.

[HoBNob]

To illustrate the point, here's the Dunfermline team the day they clinched the title at Cappielow:
Chris Smith
Calum Woods
Alex Keddie
Kevin Rutkiewicz
Austin McCann
David Graham
Gary Mason
Andy Dowie
Joe Cardle
Steven McDougall
Andy Kirk
Subs: Nicky Phinn, Liam Buchanan, Pat Clarke, Chris Higgins, Greg Paterson
I'm sure Hibs would be shitting themselves at the thought of facing Austin McCann, Steven McDougall and Alex Keddie.

Callum Woods would get into the Hibs side, none of the others would.

We did play good football that year, the Hibs side of this year has a better squad but are performing beneath themselves.

[Sloop John B]

57 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

To illustrate the point, here's the Dunfermline team the day they clinched the title at Cappielow:

Chris Smith
Calum Woods
Alex Keddie
Kevin Rutkiewicz
Austin McCann
David Graham
Gary Mason
Andy Dowie
Joe Cardle
Steven McDougall
Andy Kirk

Subs: Nicky Phinn, Liam Buchanan, Pat Clarke, Chris Higgins, Greg Paterson

I'm sure Hibs would be shitting themselves at the thought of facing Austin McCann, Steven McDougall and Alex Keddie.

That Stirling Albion side was on a similar level to that Alloa side, utterly inept beyond terrible.

Queen of the South managed by Kenny Brannigan finished 4th and reached a Challenge cup final despite almost going into administration and not giving a shit for 3/4 months. Including  losing 12-2 on aggregate  in one week to Ross County (2-0 in a cup final) , Morton (4-1 at home) and 6-1 said Dunfermline side who had 10 men. We also got bounced out of the Scottish Cup by Brechin.

Until november when we got Colin McMenamin our two strikers were Derek Holmes and David Weatherston. Our talisman was Willie Mclaren and we played David Hutton and an ancient Roddy McKenzie in goals. The squad it self whilst not the worst ever with good players who went on to better things like Rocco Quinn, Craig Reid, Bob Harris  and fairly solid Championship players like Ryan McGuffie, Allan Johnston, Steven Mckenna and Paul Burns, it was a tiny squad and in hindsight shouldn't be a top half side. I would have dreaded to see how badly we would have done if there was a playoff back then.

 

 

[Salvo Montalbano]

Makes it all the more amazing that we were playing such good football when you see that team. The individual players were moulded into a side that spanked Queen of the South 6-1 despite being down to ten men for most of it, took a very good Aberdeen side to a replay in the cup and were exciting to watch. The Raith of that season were excellent even if they relied a bit much on Baird feeding off scraps and Tade's height and strength. Falkirk were very good until they imploded at the end. Dundee haf their whole "moral victors" nonsense going on and were very strong until administration and then used/abused the Junior trialists route to still out out a very competitive team. Even Cowdenbeath were their usual selves but were hard to break down and well organised. And even if all that wasn't the case, and it's simply rose tinted spectacles, the quality of football on show was much better, with teams playing at both ends of the table playing quite expansive football and games being hard fought and interesting. And that's before even considering but Austin McCann's overall sexiness. Maybe.

In the end though, if the Hibs team of today was planted into that league then they should have enough to blast through it no bother... but then the Hibs team of today should have enough about them to do the same to this league right now. They aren't. They might end up doing so, but at the monent they're not showing anything like the talent they supposedly have. And despite being reasonably close to Hibs, Dundee Utd are pretty poor by anyone's standard.  

[flyingscot]

17 hours ago, Pride of Fife said:

Seeing that table at Xmas is depressing, we had 25 points and a game in hand on most, fast forward to now......we have 26 points.

We had 11 points and had played a game more. A win tomorrow night and we can go 3 points behind with a game in hand. Staggering really. 

1 hour ago, Shandon Par said:

St Mirren remind me of Dunfermline under Stephen Kenny. A team load of new players, an exciting spell for a couple of months, combined with a good cup run but ultimately it was relegation and despair.

I can see the similarities. Although at this stage of that season you had a 9 point gap to the nearest team (us) and a 16 point gap Dundee United.

We're still in touching distance of 4 teams, not including you guys in 6th place at 10 points ahead. It's not quite the task you had in the Kenny season (and you nearly did that!).

We can do it but need to keep winning, especially the games around us. Ayr have only lost 3 of the last 10 and keep picking up unexpected points or wins. Raith on Wednesday is massive for us. 

[CALDERON]

The quality has certainly improved.

We came relatively close to winning a title, using Gregory Tade as a battering ram.  Quality is far better than back then. 

[Rovers1992/1993]

We're still in touching distance of 4 teams, not including you guys in 6th place at 10 points ahead.

So if it's not including them in 6th, surely you're only in touching distance with 3 teams? Dumbarton(7th), Us(8th) and Ayr(9th)?

Also if them being 10 clear puts them out of reach, if we win on Wednesday( I know, I laughed as well when i wrote that ), then do we become out of reach with 9 points ahead with a game less to go?

[MrDust]

3 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

 

The Hibs and Dundee Utd of this season would struggle to finish in the top half of the season we won the division IMO. 

Thanks for that......

A league that had Cowdenbeath and Stirling Albion, having a similar statement in the above saying we were decent when we lost a third of our games, Stirling Albion lost 2/3 of their games.

That season for me was a refreshing change from the SPL, I thot the refs were worse than the SPL and the standard was the usual in having two part time teams favourite for the drop, who in those days were part time and not the standard of player the part time teams get now, which probably went a long way to help the likes of Dumbarton and Alloa be successful in recent seasons.

Thanks once more for that statement, I'll laugh a long time at that.

Personally I thought the year Patrick won the league was the worst, Patrick were worthy winners, the rest of the teams were a bit meh, Morton going old school route giving ageing players a pension bonus, ourselves struggled at the wrong end with a win or two in our first 10 games but managed to finish third.

The way the league is now, its hard not to feel optimistic in either fight relegation or promotion with 60% of the league resulting in something, its no coincidence that a queens fan started this post, where as it stands they are in the position of not going up or down scenario.

I can see the league being weaker on the whole next season but as per normal, competitive.

 

[Ranaldo Bairn]

1 hour ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Makes it all the more amazing that we were playing such good football when you see that team. The individual players were moulded into a side that spanked Queen of the South 6-1 despite being down to ten men for most of it, took a very good Aberdeen side to a replay in the cup and were exciting to watch. The Raith of that season were excellent even if they relied a bit much on Baird feeding off scraps and Tade's height and strength. Falkirk were very good until they imploded at the end. Dundee haf their whole "moral victors" nonsense going on and were very strong until administration and then used/abused the Junior trialists route to still out out a very competitive team. Even Cowdenbeath were their usual selves but were hard to break down and well organised. And even if all that wasn't the case, and it's simply rose tinted spectacles, the quality of football on show was much better, with teams playing at both ends of the table playing quite expansive football and games being hard fought and interesting. And that's before even considering but Austin McCann's overall sexiness. Maybe.

In the end though, if the Hibs team of today was planted into that league then they should have enough to blast through it no bother... but then the Hibs team of today should have enough about them to do the same to this league right now. They aren't. They might end up doing so, but at the monent they're not showing anything like the talent they supposedly have. And despite being reasonably close to Hibs, Dundee Utd are pretty poor by anyone's standard.  

Yer arse in parsley.

We had some good results but we were largely dreadful for large spells of that season, illuminated by dross like Compton, Perry, Twaddle, O'Brien and Khalis.

Don't forget there was real anger in the crowd and a movement to get Pressley sacked.

[flyingscot]

3 minutes ago, Rovers1992/1993 said:

 

So if it's not including them in 6th, surely you're only in touching distance with 3 teams? Dumbarton(7th), Us(8th) and Ayr(9th)?

Also if them being 10 clear puts them out of reach, if we win on Wednesday( I know, I laughed as well when i wrote that ), then do we become out of reach with 9 points ahead with a game less to go?

 

Yeah should be 3 other teams.

I think Dunfermline are a hard ask to catch, plus our focus should be on the teams within a couple of wins. I think a Raith win would be a massive dent in our survival chances. Not as fatal as if we'd have lost at Somerset last week, but we're drinking in the last chance saloon and need to keep getting wins to give us a shout of survival, especially as Dumbarton and Ayr are capable of wins here and there. 

[Boghead ranter]

23 hours ago, Sloop John B said:

 

• Dumbarton are just mental, one week they can thump Dundee Utd or Falkirk and then lose 5-1 to Dunfermline or lose to a Junior side. They are a team that doesn't follow the laws of logic and I have an awful lot of time for that.

We do what we want*

 

 

 

 

 

*Actually, we have no idea what we are doing, we just take what happens.

[HoBNob]

Yer arse in parsley.
We had some good results but we were largely dreadful for large spells of that season, illuminated by dross like Compton, Perry, Twaddle, O'Brien and Khalis.
Don't forget there was real anger in the crowd and a movement to get Pressley sacked.

I thought Compton was alright tbf.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

3 hours ago, Grant228 said:

I thought Compton was alright tbf.

He was pretty fast and could skin a man and cross a ball, but unfortunately he was among the laziest craters ever birthed. I always wanted him to come good, but he was never consistent or committed enough. A real pity.

I remember Tam Scobbie absolutely blowing a gasket at him at Cowdenbeath one night.

[D.A.F.C]

I think the quality has vastly improved due to the money coming in from Hibs, Hearts and Rangers over the last few seasons.

All the teams are capable of beating each other on their day. Hibs, United, Falkirk and maybe Morton look to be the top four sides and would give the bottom six in the SPL a run for their money. Hibs especially can physically compete with anyone but lack the footballing ability that Falkirk or ourselves have at times if McGinn is off form they struggle and resort to basic Martin O'Neil tactics. Its effective but severely limited and not something I would like to watch every week for the budget they have.

As mentioned by other pars fans if you compare our title winning side that played some good stuff and only lost once at home all season, we beat ourselves that day tbh, I think you can see it's definitely improved.

In the seasons we didn't go up Johnny Hayes or Liam Craig were the outstanding players along with the Hamilton youngsters and Dorrans/Griffiths of Livvy. They've all went onto decent things, you could expect the same from Quitongo, Sibbald etc.

 

[MrDust]

41 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

I think the quality has vastly improved due to the money coming in from Hibs, Hearts and Rangers over the last few seasons.

All the teams are capable of beating each other on their day. Hibs, United, Falkirk and maybe Morton look to be the top four sides and would give the bottom six in the SPL a run for their money. Hibs especially can physically compete with anyone but lack the footballing ability that Falkirk or ourselves have at times if McGinn is off form they struggle and resort to basic Martin O'Neil tactics. Its effective but severely limited and not something I would like to watch every week for the budget they have.

As mentioned by other pars fans if you compare our title winning side that played some good stuff and only lost once at home all season, we beat ourselves that day tbh, I think you can see it's definitely improved.

In the seasons we didn't go up Johnny Hayes or Liam Craig were the outstanding players along with the Hamilton youngsters and Dorrans/Griffiths of Livvy. They've all went onto decent things, you could expect the same from Quitongo, Sibbald etc.

 

I'd re cut and paste that again

[D.A.F.C]

?

[Skyline Drifter]

On 05/03/2017 at 22:37, TheMessiah said:

Nicky Clark has as many goals as the house elf, lol.

He has as many league goals. He's got 6 less in total goals. Nice try though.

On 05/03/2017 at 22:57, die hard doonhamer said:

It's only the complete morons amongst our support that think that Clark isn't a good striker. I would have him back in a heartbeat.

This. Absolutely. I've said it consistently. Nicky Clark is an excellent striker whose movement is as good as anyone I've seen play for us up front. He's not got the ability of a Dobbie or the clinical finishing of a Lyle but his speed and movement get him openings they wouldn't get. I'd love to get him back here. Rangers did their best to ruin him by having him play a different way and it took him a while to get back to what he does best at Dunfermline but it's clearly coming.

On 06/03/2017 at 02:34, TheMessiah said:

That's fair, would you take @Hawk back, given his recent form?

Yes, probably. Maybe going back to his roots is what he needs to get him restarted. I haven't seen much of him lately but it must surely be a form thing. Clark was poor too for his last year or so at Ibrox. I imagine he's a more realistic target for next season than Nicky Clark is anyway!

 

[TheMessiah]

3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Yes, probably. Maybe going back to his roots is what he needs to get him restarted. I haven't seen much of him lately but it must surely be a form thing. Clark was poor too for his last year or so at Ibrox. I imagine he's a more realistic target for next season than Nicky Clark is anyway!

 

Seems like his head's gone a bit tbh, can't see him striking up a partnership with Nicky again anyway. You're welcome to him, no chance he's getting a shot at Hearts after this season.

[Marshmallo]

I think the quality has vastly improved due to the money coming in from Hibs, Hearts and Rangers over the last few seasons.
All the teams are capable of beating each other on their day. Hibs, United, Falkirk and maybe Morton look to be the top four sides and would give the bottom six in the SPL a run for their money. Hibs especially can physically compete with anyone but lack the footballing ability that Falkirk or ourselves have at times if McGinn is off form they struggle and resort to basic Martin O'Neil tactics. Its effective but severely limited and not something I would like to watch every week for the budget they have.
As mentioned by other pars fans if you compare our title winning side that played some good stuff and only lost once at home all season, we beat ourselves that day tbh, I think you can see it's definitely improved.
In the seasons we didn't go up Johnny Hayes or Liam Craig were the outstanding players along with the Hamilton youngsters and Dorrans/Griffiths of Livvy. They've all went onto decent things, you could expect the same from Quitongo, Sibbald etc.
 

Hibs do not lack "the footballing ability" of a team with Nat Wedderburn and Andy Geggan in the midfield.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

17 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

 

Hibs do not lack "the footballing ability" of a team with Nat Wedderburn and Andy Geggan in the midfield.

 

Both are fair points. Hibs are not a footballing side. They are a long ball team and that was always going to be the case under Lennon. That man flopped badly down south and should be nowhere near football however because of his Celtic ties Hibs gave him a job.

Thought the Pars fan point was well made until he mentioned Wedderburn. He is awful.