Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

28 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Some people don't like adultery.

Adultery 

It was inappropriate. That does not make it sexual harrassment or adultery. Laughable shite.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

18 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Maybe Eck has an open marriage? Remember the rumours that used to circulate that he was gay, and that Moira was acting as his shield?

Surprisingly, this aspect of his alleged perversity has been ignored for the last few years...

You know what rumour I remember, circulated widely on here, that NS was gay and there would be an announcement imminently. How's that working out lads?  

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

40 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Sure.

Wee note to @welshbairn.  You have blocked Carnoustie Young Loyalist and he's greetin' about it.

He does seem an excitable young chap who posts screeds of shite so I don't blame you.

Yeah I didn't mean in general, he's a bit of a fandan, not quite as much as you but still. I just meant that post, as he doesn't know the actual facts of the matter he's discussing.  Hey ho though what does it matter.

[The_Kincardine]

17 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Yeah I didn't mean in general....I just meant that post

Ooops 

[lichtgilphead]

33 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I'm not going to make a judgement on she said/she said/he said when I wasn't on the jury and able to assess all the evidence and veracity of the witnesses. I'm happy to go on the verdict that there was insufficient evidence to convince the jury that he was guilty of a crime, beyond all reasonable doubt. What I'm incredulous about is that there was some vast conspiracy to do him in, and 1) if you're arguing that only one of the witnesses lied, and 2) the other nine's allegations were true but lacked the severity of the legal threshold, it 3) doesn't leave Salmond in a good light. The whole matter should have been over with when he left the court house, instead 4) he and others keep dredging it up with a vital election coming up and polling consistently in favour of independence for the first time. It's like the independence movement is getting too close to the prize so they're starting to punch themselves in their own face.

1) I'm not saying that one prosecution witness lied. Only tonight, I've suggested that at least 2 (witness H and witness C) must have been lying.. There may be more.

2) One of the other nine wouldn't even take the stand. Some of the other allegartions were just risible. As an example,  if I touched your arm, would that be a sexual assault? FYI, I identify as a hetrosexual male.

3) Over the years, I've done things that don't leave me in a good light. None of them have ended up with me facing prosecution after a major police investigation turned up the fact that I've been a bit of a tw*t at times.

4) He has been asked to appear in front of a Holyrood committee with powers to compel him to attend.

In comparison, you and others keep coming out with 'no smoke without fire' innuendo. Similarly, do you believe that Craig Murray was allowed to pick his trial date this week, or was that in the hands of the Crown Office? I wonder when the verdict in that case will be announced? Only a cynic like me would suspect that it might be at a politically advantageeous time for one of Salmond's opponents.

Salmond has not picked this fight, but is entitled to defend his reputation. 

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

Very possible, I've no idea. 

The fact that over 400 people were interviewed and not a single complainer was found outside Sturgeon's circle is enough evidence for me it's a fit up.

Civil servants are not "in Sturgeon's circle". If you believe that, you don't know how government works.

[The_Kincardine]

17 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Civil servants are not "in Sturgeon's circle". If you believe that, you don't know how government works.

Everything we've seen throughout the farce that is the Salmond enquiry shows that Leslie Evans certainly is.

[SANTAN]

15 hours ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

Is ‘why?’ the most important question? I don’t know why. Only Leslie Evans and/or Sturgeon herself know why.

You then jump from ‘why?’ to lazy rhetoric associated with ‘conspiracy theory’. Somewhere in between, the evidence is slowly emerging and will continue to do so until the dam breaks. I find it genuinely astonishing you’re not interested in the increasingly clear evidence that there has been a criminal conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, involving members of the SG, civil service, and COPFS. The only thing we need to reserve judgement on is the precise role Sturgeon did (or didn’t) play in that. If she really has stepped back and allowed civil servants and advisers to make the running, she’s guilty of failing to ensure that her administration acts lawfully. If she’s more directly involved, well...

Either way, her career is over and the independence movement are going to have to absorb and overcome the impact of that, and quick.

How on earth have I ‘defeated’ any argument? I was very careful to make it absolutely clear you can’t say with any certainty _why_ 40,000 members have vanished... that wasn’t the main point I was making.

The main point is that 40,000 is a large number. Why on earth would the leadership, according to your logic (‘no choice but to make a statement’) say nothing about that... then leap to Twitter on a midweek night when two dozen (a small number) flounce off because they took a battering in the NEC elections? (I’m not even going to get into your weird idea that the ‘nutters’ are on their way in to the NEC; they’ve just been booted off...).

Sturgeon has begun to position herself as a martyr for some deliberately false idea of a ‘progressive’ (in her terms) SNP, desperately trying to cast those who are about to empty her as ‘reactionary’ (bigots/transphobes/whatever does the job). It’s cynical, dishonest politics of the worst kind... a cover, ultimately, for the fact that she’s let the Brexit window close without capitalising on it.

Disappointed you also then default to the lazy conspiracy theory stuff; as above, there’s already enough evidence to confirm that something is badly wrong and there’s much more to come.

Great post. Eloquent way of saying you really don’t want to deal with the reality. Nae luck.

 

To all three of you: will you put your money where your mouths are? Wee bet for charity that Sturgeon’s political career is over, either through exposure before (or probably during) the election campaign, or in an ostensibly health-related resignation (exhausted dealing with Covid type of deal)?

On top of the cash, I’ll even promise to stop laughing at Falkirk (just to show how serious I am...).

[For context, I’ve supported independence all my adult life, am still (just) a member of the SNP, and remain confident the independence movement will survive whatever happens. I’m as astonished as anyone that this is how the Sturgeon story ends...]

I'm astonished that this guy is astonished that people have no interest when proven wrong on issues on this forum. A moral vacuum exists as long as you're pro Indy. 

[The Ghost of B A R P]

15 hours ago, welshbairn said:

^^^Johanna/Wings fanboy still fails to impress after taking 16 hours to come up with an answer as to why anyone in the Scottish Government would first think there was any need to worry about the RT's latest recruit, and secondly how they managed to persuade 10 women to lie in court.

The daft name-calling and deflection confirm that you’re not really interested in the evidence (who is ‘Johanna’, btw? b*****d child of Johann Lamont and Joanna Cherry?)

Lichtgilphead has already handed you your arse regarding the testimony of the complainants. I’ll just add, cos you’ve clearly no intention of doing any reading yourself, that a number of the complainants were cultivated by civil servants... and their complaints, initially made in an HR context, were referred to the police by Leslie Evans without their consent (at the point where they had to concede that the internal fit-up had failed). If anybody’s guilty of abuse, it’s the SG and the Civil service, who have cynically used some of the women involved, without any concern for the no doubt difficult (and ongoing) consequences for them.

If you could see past your own prejudice and denial (‘RT’s latest recruit’ ffs) you’d have realised that speculating about motivation can only be, well, speculation at this stage. The important thing is for all the evidence to come out... and the SG and COPFS are still doing their damndest to make sure that doesn’t happen.

15 hours ago, NotThePars said:

50 quid that Sturgeon is still the leader by June?

 

15 hours ago, welshbairn said:

I'm in for £50 too, by midnight on May 31st seems fair.

It’ll be a bitter kinda pleasure to take your money off you and pass it on to the more deserving. Midnight on 31st May it is (not sure if Dunning and/or the Derry boy want to join).

10 hours ago, welshbairn said:

The whole matter should have been over with when he left the court house, instead he and others keep dredging it up with a vital election coming up and polling consistently in favour of independence for the first time. It's like the independence movement is getting too close to the prize so they're starting to punch themselves in their own face.

A lot of nonsense has been said about this, on here and elsewhere, but that really is about as stupid and blinkered as it gets... _he_ keeps ‘dredging it up’? Have a fuckin word with yourself.

Unless of course if you were the victim of a criminal conspiracy, you’d just let it go with good grace, even if those who’d tried to discredit and imprison you were continuing to lie and smear... Or maybe you’re that kinda guy who, if you became aware of deep-rooted corruption at the heart of the SG and civil service, you’d just turn a blind eye because it didn’t suit your political agenda?

Make no mistake, this is a grenade inadvertently rolled under the independence movement by Nicola Sturgeon, either through incompetence and naivety or for more sinister reasons. Salmond has offered them a way out at each and every stage of the process, right up until she went on Sky news and covered the fact that she couldn’t answer direct questions about what she knew and when by blithering about how ‘this all came about due to the actions of Alex Salmond’ and - God help us - how ironic it was that ‘a female politician was having to answer for the actions of a man’.

That’s the point at which it became clear she was lying out of her arse. Cynical and dishonest, now a prisoner of the lies she has told and the next lie she needs to tell in a desperate attempt to keep a lid on it.

All of which means she’s utterly compromised, a sitting duck for the opposition and the Unionist media, at a time of their choosing.

If it takes until 31st May, she’ll have done much more damage than the not inconsiderable damage that’s already baked in.

 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

24 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

The daft name-calling and deflection confirm that you’re not really interested in the evidence (who is ‘Johanna’, btw? b*****d child of Johann Lamont and Joanna Cherry?)

Lichtgilphead has already handed you your arse regarding the testimony of the complainants. I’ll just add, cos you’ve clearly no intention of doing any reading yourself, that a number of the complainants were cultivated by civil servants... and their complaints, initially made in an HR context, were referred to the police by Leslie Evans without their consent (at the point where they had to concede that the internal fit-up had failed). If anybody’s guilty of abuse, it’s the SG and the Civil service, who have cynically used some of the women involved, without any concern for the no doubt difficult (and ongoing) consequences for them.

If you could see past your own prejudice and denial (‘RT’s latest recruit’ ffs) you’d have realised that speculating about motivation can only be, well, speculation at this stage. The important thing is for all the evidence to come out... and the SG and COPFS are still doing their damndest to make sure that doesn’t happen.

 

It’ll be a bitter kinda pleasure to take your money off you and pass it on to the more deserving. Midnight on 31st May it is (not sure if Dunning and/or the Derry boy want to join).

A lot of nonsense has been said about this, on here and elsewhere, but that really is about as stupid and blinkered as it gets... _he_ keeps ‘dredging it up’? Have a fuckin word with yourself.

Unless of course if you were the victim of a criminal conspiracy, you’d just let it go with good grace, even if those who’d tried to discredit and imprison you were continuing to lie and smear... Or maybe you’re that kinda guy who, if you became aware of deep-rooted corruption at the heart of the SG and civil service, you’d just turn a blind eye because it didn’t suit your political agenda?

Make no mistake, this is a grenade inadvertently rolled under the independence movement by Nicola Sturgeon, either through incompetence and naivety or for more sinister reasons. Salmond has offered them a way out at each and every stage of the process, right up until she went on Sky news and covered the fact that she couldn’t answer direct questions about what she knew and when by blithering about how ‘this all came about due to the actions of Alex Salmond’ and - God help us - how ironic it was that ‘a female politician was having to answer for the actions of a man’.

That’s the point at which it became clear she was lying out of her arse. Cynical and dishonest, now a prisoner of the lies she has told and the next lie she needs to tell in a desperate attempt to keep a lid on it.

All of which means she’s utterly compromised, a sitting duck for the opposition and the Unionist media, at a time of their choosing.

If it takes until 31st May, she’ll have done much more damage than the not inconsiderable damage that’s already baked in.

 

Good post.

From what I've read this is almost certainly the case.  

And to suggest Salmond should just allow himself to be smeared and libeled is laughable but many on here do.

There is no doubt whatsoever there was a criminal conspiracy to have Salmond jailed on false charges, and also no doubt NS was heavily involved in it, as was her husband. They are now learning if you take a shot at the king you best not miss.

She may have done enormous damage to the cause of independence at a crucial time through her own naivety and hubris, and if so hell mend her that is unforgivable.

However, people who call her independence's best asset (look at the polls look at the polls) well lets look at the polls then. They did not budge a millimetre with five years of Sturgeon in charge, and have only moved in the last year, coinciding with Boris and Brexit.  Its f**k all to do with Nicola Sturgeon.

But she has almost certainly ended her own career, and it does look very much like the unionists and media are timing it to all blow up very shortly before the election.

Its very worrying.

[welshbairn]

[The Ghost of B A R P]

^^^^^^^ Flat-earth, tin-hat, Gillian Anderson, etc etc...

Apart from that, nothing to say, as expected.

[Baxter Parp]

47 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

And to suggest Salmond should just allow himself to be smeared and libeled is laughable

Who is libelling Salmond and how?

[SandyCromarty]

23 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

The £500k was supposed to be ring- fenced!

Anyway, once the Treasurer responds to Stuart Campbell, we’ll know the answer.

Tell me I’m wrong, but I think the m’ship has dropped substantially recently.

Whats the current figure?

The most recent membership I can find still stands at over 125,000 and it's expected to exceed that in the run up to the May elections as the demand for Independence gathers pace.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

7 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Who is libelling Salmond and how?

Thousands of people, many on here, calling him a sex pest etc. That's libelous. He gets it every day on social media, and is an innocent man who has done nothing wrong.  You wouldn't put up with it either.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

Just now, SandyCromarty said:

The most recent membership I can find still stands at over 125,000 and it's expected to exceed that in the run up to the May elections as the demand for Independence gathers pace.

The SNP does not currently have 125,000 members. No one knows exactly how many members the SNP has, because the SNP won’t tell anyone, not even its members.

The membership is more likely to fall over the next couple of months than rise.

The most significant step-change in recent years was _after_ the defeat in 2014, not before.

[Dawson Park Boy]

3 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

The most recent membership I can find still stands at over 125,000 and it's expected to exceed that in the run up to the May elections as the demand for Independence gathers pace.

Fair enough. I’ll take your word for it.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I think the yes da types are absolutely dying for independence to fail, thats why they are clinging to things like opposing gender recognition and supporting a sex pest with some of the most outlandish claims of ‘cRiMiNaL cOnSpIrAcY’ ive ever seen. Its trumpian in essence. You only have to look at the people they champion, Chris ‘i hate the uk but happy to work for the MOD/Laughing stock of greenock council’ Mceleny and Angus the bampot Macneil and a fucking video games reviewer with obvious mental health issues bordering on psychosis and demands to be called a ‘rev’. These people are essentially the Scottish equivalent of the Tea Party, they are the exact same as the psychopaths on the other side like British Alba and Effie and Janella. 

[SandyCromarty]

6 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

The SNP does not currently have 125,000 members. No one knows exactly how many members the SNP has, because the SNP won’t tell anyone, not even its members.

The membership is more likely to fall over the next couple of months than rise.

The most significant step-change in recent years was _after_ the defeat in 2014, not before.

Typical Unionist response, I gave the most recent figures I found and yet without any evidence otherwise you deny.

In all honesty have a look at your response, it is foolish.

We still have lots of money.

Edited January 30, 2021 by SandyCromarty

[Baxter Parp]

7 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Thousands of people, many on here, calling him a sex pest etc. That's libelous. He gets it every day on social media, and is an innocent man who has done nothing wrong.  You wouldn't put up with it either.

Why did he apologise for it then?