The European football level St. Mirren FC 2024/25 thread

[medals]

7 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

I think we look a fair bit stronger actually. We've sorted the defence out and are going back to being more physical. Just depends on how players settle and if Devlin stays fit to be fair. Stephen Kelly in particular looks set for a stand out season

Thats fair but well see once you play Premiership opposition. Youll know better than me.

i do think losing Nicky Devlin, Jack Fitzwater is big and I've no idea if your new signings are any good. Time will tell.  

Hope you have a good season - you always punch above your weight.

 

[RandomGuy.]

24 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

I think we look a fair bit stronger actually. We've sorted the defence out and are going back to being more physical. Just depends on how players settle and if Devlin stays fit to be fair. Stephen Kelly in particular looks set for a stand out season

This.

People who think Livingston are weaker and will be in a relegation battle are the same people who think crowd sizes are relevant once you get below the big 5 clubs. 

They just see the name Livingston and assume youre weak because SmAlL ClUb hAS No FanS!!!!!

5th consecutive top flight season and never finished below 9th, yet everyone claims you fight relegation every season.

[medals]

9 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

This.

People who think Livingston are weaker and will be in a relegation battle are the same people who think crowd sizes are relevant once you get below the big 5 clubs. 

They just see the name Livingston and assume youre weak because SmAlL ClUb hAS No FanS!!!!!

5th consecutive top flight season and never finished below 9th, yet everyone claims you fight relegation every season.

I'm not judging them on size, budget or managers ability.

They just seem to sign guys from lower leagues and for them it mostly works out. It just might not some time.

If they lost Anderson, Nouble and Kelly for a big chunk or away altogether I think that would be a huge blow. I'm not sure if they have decent alternatives currently. 

Also their defending in the later stages of last season was very poor.

[Captain_Sensible]

1 hour ago, Torfason said:

I would like to see the club bring in the Union and our lawyers to explore our employment law options.

If he is refusing to train, play or carry out any normal duties as part of his employment then it is grounds for termination.

I doubt he’s refusing to train or play!

 

[Billy Jean King]

14 minutes ago, Captain_Sensible said:

I doubt he’s refusing to train or play!

 

Was thinking that myself, bit of a wild claim.

[pozbaird]

I think Livingston aren’t particularly weak, or strong. They might well finish top six, or equally, they might have a shite season. Fair play to them for five consecutive seasons in the top flight, finishing no lower than ninth. I’m sure, as merely two examples, Dunfermline & Falkirk would kill for that record. Again though, just as an example, Dunfermline and Falkirk are two examples of clubs I’d much rather see in the top flight than Livingston. I could add Partick Thistle and Dundee United to that list. Opinions, opinions, eh? We got Hamilton to fcuk. Livingston next please. Thank you.

Sits back and awaits a virtual slap on the ashet from disgruntled Ferranti Thistle fans. Oh well, never mind. As I say, opinions. Like arseholes, we all have one.

[Torfason]

21 minutes ago, Captain_Sensible said:

I doubt he’s refusing to train or play!

 

Then if he is training and is available he should be on the bench, I don’t see why an employee can be available for work, willing to work and not be asked to work. 
In any other industry he would be working (in this case playing), we’ve all managed or worked with unhappy employees but they are still expected to come and put in a shift. Football seems a weird environment where you can say your unhappy and the manager stops asking you to contribute.

 I get that he wants a move but until that happens he shouldn’t be paid to train and not be available to play.

 

[Torfason]

13 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

Was thinking that myself, bit of a wild claim.

My point wasn’t that I was claiming he was withholding labour, it was that football clubs should be run like every other professional business. If he is available and prepared to play, he is better on the bench, if he is not then fire him.

I don’t understand why a business would have a highly paid employee and not have them contribute, football is simply weird, where the business cuts off its nose to spite it’s face or where employees are given so much control.

[ATLIS]

1 hour ago, medals said:

Thats fair but well see once you play Premiership opposition. Youll know better than me.

i do think losing Nicky Devlin, Jack Fitzwater is big and I've no idea if your new signings are any good. Time will tell.  

Hope you have a good season - you always punch above your weight.

 

Nicky Devlin basically chucked it the last 18 months, he downed tools on a massive scale. Don't get me wrong he's always somewhat passable but he wasn't a standout in that team for a long time.

Fitzwater was the same albeit the last 6 months, he's too inexperienced and weak. He looked good as he was surrounded by other players struggling more, Michael Devlin is a massive upgrade on him if he stays fit and we've added Nottingham who has about 150+ games at League 1 level down south.

We've went through our entire preseason and cup games undefeated and only conceding two goals and scoring 16, those games including a 0-0 away draw to Rangers. 

[ATLIS]

51 minutes ago, medals said:

I'm not judging them on size, budget or managers ability.

They just seem to sign guys from lower leagues and for them it mostly works out. It just might not some time.

If they lost Anderson, Nouble and Kelly for a big chunk or away altogether I think that would be a huge blow. I'm not sure if they have decent alternatives currently. 

Also their defending in the later stages of last season was very poor.

I wouldn't disagree with you on losing Anderson/Kelly but we've already planned for Nouble being away. We're playing a 3421/5221 without wingers now relying on wingbacks getting up and down. Martindale talked a lot about sorting the defence out and like I'd posted above we've signed a lot more experienced players this time around for the defence. We could conceivably field a back 3 CB of Parkes (almost 300 games of English League 1 football), Michael Devlin (Scotland caps) and Michael Nottingham (150+ games at English League 1 level). That's before adding in De Lucas (international with Dominican Republic), Obileye (tried and tested at this level) and then Boyes (most inexperienced but ex-Liverpool youth). I think the observation is correct, our defending last season in the last 3-4 months was diabolical.

Apparently we're a striker away from finishing the squad, so not sure how it'll stack up but I reckon we'll be comfortably away from relegation this season. We'll probably end up doing our usual in having a strong pre-winter break period and look to be challengers for top 6/Europe and have it all fall apart in the last 6 weeks. Two seasons in a row we missed top 6 on the last day.

[houston_bud]

7 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

I wouldn't disagree with you on losing Anderson/Kelly but we've already planned for Nouble being away. We're playing a 3421/5221 without wingers now relying on wingbacks getting up and down. Martindale talked a lot about sorting the defence out and like I'd posted above we've signed a lot more experienced players this time around for the defence. We could conceivably field a back 3 CB of Parkes (almost 300 games of English League 1 football), Michael Devlin (Scotland caps) and Michael Nottingham (150+ games at English League 1 level). That's before adding in De Lucas (international with Dominican Republic), Obileye (tried and tested at this level) and then Boyes (most inexperienced but ex-Liverpool youth). I think the observation is correct, our defending last season in the last 3-4 months was diabolical.

Apparently we're a striker away from finishing the squad, so not sure how it'll stack up but I reckon we'll be comfortably away from relegation this season. We'll probably end up doing our usual in having a strong pre-winter break period and look to be challengers for top 6/Europe and have it all fall apart in the last 6 weeks. Two seasons in a row we missed top 6 on the last day.

Devlin has hardly kicked a ball the past few seasons. Your point still stands though.

The last few close seasons I've always felt Livingston had lost a few important players and wouldn't do as well, yet they've had consistently strong seasons. 

I think for the majority of teams in this league, the difference between a strong season and one where they struggle is probably quite marginal. Two or three regulars move on and get replaced by guys who arent quite as good, injuries to a couple of key players, or losing someone on the eve of the transfer window closing and not replacing them.

In short, I wouldn't be surprised to see Livingston/St Mirren/Motherwell/Kilmarnock finish in the top six. Neither would I be surprised to see any of them in a relegation tussle.

[Black_and_White_Stripes]

5 hours ago, Wilbur said:

It will be almost impossible to keep Baccus and/or Strain if the money on offer is half decent. Morally, based on the commitment they have given to St Mirren in the last 12 months, it would be obscene to deny them a move to a better opportunity and whopping pay rises. Losing either or both would be a blow but shit happens, eh ? It would be worse if we were to lose O'Hara too !!!

 

Aye, they've been good servants to the club and it would be nice for them to part on good terms. 

 

3 hours ago, Lex said:

We should let him leave for nothing. There isn’t going to be many clubs wanting to pay a fee for a 35 year old keeper who will be one of our best paid players and will therefore command a relatively big wage at his next club too. 
The worst case - but not unlikely - scenario  is the status quo endures. Carson continues to earn big money without featuring at all. 

Can we not make him play in B games, eg. the one vs Albion Rovers? If he refuses we sack him for breaching his contract or something? 

ETA: I see this has already been address by @Torfason and @Captain_Sensible

Edited July 30, 2023 by Black_and_White_Stripes

[Captain_Sensible]

1 hour ago, Torfason said:

Then if he is training and is available he should be on the bench, I don’t see why an employee can be available for work, willing to work and not be asked to work. 
In any other industry he would be working (in this case playing), we’ve all managed or worked with unhappy employees but they are still expected to come and put in a shift. Football seems a weird environment where you can say your unhappy and the manager stops asking you to contribute.

 I get that he wants a move but until that happens he shouldn’t be paid to train and not be available to play.

 

I’m guessing that the plan is get him off the books before the transfer window closes. Therefore no point in having in as part of the squad.

If he’s still here when the transfer window closes (which I think is unlikely) then maybe he’ll be involved again. 

[Div]

Progressing to the 2nd round of the League Cup means we are guaranteed £55K prize money, even if we were to lose that tie.

Hopefully that, plus the share of gate money at the 2nd round tie, might be just enough to help loosen the purse strings a bit for another left back to compete with Tanser.

[medals]

5 minutes ago, Div said:

Progressing to the 2nd round of the League Cup means we are guaranteed £55K prize money, even if we were to lose that tie.

Hopefully that, plus the share of gate money at the 2nd round tie, might be just enough to help loosen the purse strings a bit for another left back to compete with Tanser.

What we going to do with the £175k then?

[ATLIS]

1 hour ago, houston_bud said:

Devlin has hardly kicked a ball the past few seasons. Your point still stands though.

The last few close seasons I've always felt Livingston had lost a few important players and wouldn't do as well, yet they've had consistently strong seasons. 

I think for the majority of teams in this league, the difference between a strong season and one where they struggle is probably quite marginal. Two or three regulars move on and get replaced by guys who arent quite as good, injuries to a couple of key players, or losing someone on the eve of the transfer window closing and not replacing them.

In short, I wouldn't be surprised to see Livingston/St Mirren/Motherwell/Kilmarnock finish in the top six. Neither would I be surprised to see any of them in a relegation tussle.

I think it's down to no one player being bigger than the collective and no room for egos. Something I think that relates to St Mirren and Carson at the minute, you'll come out the other end stronger without him if that's his attitude. Squad harmony is paramount.

I get what you're saying with Devlin, if he gets injured we have a bit of an issue but he's played 6-7 games for us now. Fingers crossed  

[djchapsticks]

13 minutes ago, Div said:

Progressing to the 2nd round of the League Cup means we are guaranteed £55K prize money, even if we were to lose that tie.

Hopefully that, plus the share of gate money at the 2nd round tie, might be just enough to help loosen the purse strings a bit for another left back to compete with Tanser.

We should have enough in the budget for a LWB surely.

Just throw that Prize money onto an extra year or two for Ryan Strain.

[Norrie82]

Id be tempted to offer Strain the 55 k to sign a new deal. If he did then we wouldn’t lose the deal would be that if an offer comes in that hits a certain point we’d allow him to go. He wins short term but knows that he will likely get a move shortly if form keeps up. Worth a go even tho it’ll never happen will it 

[Torfason]

2 hours ago, Captain_Sensible said:

I’m guessing that the plan is get him off the books before the transfer window closes. Therefore no point in having in as part of the squad.

If he’s still here when the transfer window closes (which I think is unlikely) then maybe he’ll be involved again. 

I do wonder if he is still being afforded the extra time at home with his family during the week? Unless it was written in his contact.......... then the club would be well within its rights to expect him to follow the standard reporting days........ like everyone else. 

[MenstrieSaint]

15 minutes ago, Norrie82 said:

Id be tempted to offer Strain the 55 k to sign a new deal. If he did then we wouldn’t lose the deal would be that if an offer comes in that hits a certain point we’d allow him to go. He wins short term but knows that he will likely get a move shortly if form keeps up. Worth a go even tho it’ll never happen will it 

Would prefer if both Baccus and Strain were offered the same deal . Eventually they will be sold but it woukd be great to get an extra couple of extra years of them playing in the stripes .