John Lambies Doos Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Hibs'd it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Spanish bombs rock the province I'm hearing music from another time 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 hours ago, GTG_03 said: I agree. Declaring independence you then have to act like an independent country. If he'd turned up for work with his fellow ministers Spain would have arrested them and made an ever bigger mistake. Political prisoners in 2017 in an EU state. The Catalans need someone to look up to, to fight for them peacefully and democratically. He's have been better doing that in Catalonia. It's only 30 years in a Madrid jail he's facing, least he could have done. Or maybe sparked off a civil war. Not a great choice imo, or what's best for Catalonia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Wifey on C4 news there who had turned up to wave her Spain fleg at Puigdemont in Brussels. She doesn't like that he's turned folk against each other. Good to see concern trolling and a severe lack of self-awareness amongst their Unionists too. 1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said: Hibs'd it You've been on quite the campaign to ressurect this since taking a mild slagging from one or two of the m9s, haven't you? I'm very sorry if you had your feelings hurt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, welshbairn said: It's only 30 years in a Madrid jail he's facing, least he could have done. Or maybe sparked off a civil war. Not a great choice imo, or what's best for Catalonia. Can't say I'd be volunteering to martyr myself for anything but surely if you're going to goad a government into getting a bit fascisty, running off when shit gets real shouldn't really be part of the plan. Seems like he's shat the bed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Alan Stubbs said: Can't say I'd be volunteering to martyr myself for anything but surely if you're going to goad a government into getting a bit fascisty, running off when shit gets real shouldn't really be part of the plan. Seems like he's shat the bed. Should he have stayed in Barcelona and asked the local police and supporters to take on the Guardia Civil? Or meekly headed for a Madrid courtroom? Third way isn't always the worst, at least he'll still be able to campaign for the December election. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG_03 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 It's only 30 years in a Madrid jail he's facing, least he could have done. Or maybe sparked off a civil war. Not a great choice imo, or what's best for Catalonia. Well no. Not really. He's either declared Catalonia independent or not. If anyone is kicking off a civil war it certainly is not puigdemont. What the Catalans have done is a peaceful democratic process in the face of violence and oppression.The EU should be ashamed of themselves here. It will only take their popularity plummeting for them to take action. Hardly a ringing endorsement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Interesting poll Europe Elects @EuropeElects Spain (Catalonia), GESOP poll: Status Referendum Independence: 40% State in federal Spain: 27% Status Quo: 27%... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 11 minutes ago, doulikefish said: Interesting poll Europe Elects @EuropeElects Spain (Catalonia), GESOP poll: Status Referendum Independence: 40% State in federal Spain: 27% Status Quo: 27%... And more Europe Elects @EuropeElects 4m4 minutes ago Spain (Catalonia), GESOP poll: Independence Referendum Yes: 53 (+6) No: 47 (-6) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 10 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Should he have stayed in Barcelona and asked the local police and supporters to take on the Guardia Civil? Or meekly headed for a Madrid courtroom? Third way isn't always the worst, at least he'll still be able to campaign for the December election. He should have stayed in Barcelona without calling anyone to violence. As I say, I wouldn't have the nads to do it in the first place but if you're going to ignore the central state's rules on the grounds of their oppression, you've unfortunately got to let them escalate that oppression if that's what it takes. From what I can tell, there are two ways to lead a country to Independence. The first is to ask the existing state to do the decent thing and let the people decide. If said nation state flat out refuses and you take the second option of disobeying the larger power, then running away isn't a viable option. There are arguments to be had on whether declaring Independence was a good idea or not but taking it this far and fleeing is a bit poor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 11 hours ago, Alan Stubbs said: He should have stayed in Barcelona without calling anyone to violence. Would he have had a choice? All the violence came unbidden. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob the tank Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Madrid gonna Madrid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Madrid gonna Madrid Well if they had behaved better... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Well if this whole saga has shown anything so far it is that the EU simply can't be counted on to help would be new members after an independence referendum in an EU member state based on arguments that revolve around democracy and fair play. Always suspected that was the case and that if Scotland had voted Yes in 2014 there would have been no automatic entry, but a long and arduous accession process with the rUK as an existing member able to call the tune to a large extent (see what happened with Slovenia and Croatia for why that's less than ideal). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 47 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Well if this whole saga has shown anything so far it is that the EU simply can't be counted on to help would be new members after a faux-illegal independence referendum Fixed that for you a wee bit. The Scottish referendum wouldn't have compared. For whatever reason. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Independence would have been recognized in Scotland's case. The problem would have been that the EU would not have rolled out a red carpet on immediate membership and a lot of the issues currently being faced by the UK with a no deal Brexit would have applied to an independent Scotland. The EU doesn't want "regions" breaking away from any of its members states. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 53 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Independence would have been recognized in Scotland's case. The problem would have been that the EU would not have rolled out a red carpet on immediate membership and a lot of the issues currently being faced by the UK with a no deal Brexit would have applied to an independent Scotland. The EU doesn't want "regions" breaking away from any of its members states. I do agree with this but I would say it's much easier to join the EU than to leave. I don't think the complexity is the same. Saying that, because Scotland borders England and it is a big market it now causes some issues. Before Brexitland, I think the EU would not have rolled out the carpet but the actual negotiations would not have been complicated given Scotland already fulfills the requirements. A delay would be political will rather than anything actually contradictory in the Ts&Cs. Edited November 2, 2017 by tirso 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Blades Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Arrest warrant issued for Carlos- what happens now? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Well if this whole saga has shown anything so far it is that the EU simply can't be counted on to help would be new members after an independence referendum in an EU member state based on arguments that revolve around democracy and fair play. Always suspected that was the case and that if Scotland had voted Yes in 2014 there would have been no automatic entry, but a long and arduous accession process with the rUK as an existing member able to call the tune to a large extent (see what happened with Slovenia and Croatia for why that's less than ideal). The EU would welcome Scotland with open arms since the brexit referendum 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: Independence would have been recognized in Scotland's case. The problem would have been that the EU would not have rolled out a red carpet on immediate membership and a lot of the issues currently being faced by the UK with a no deal Brexit would have applied to an independent Scotland. The EU doesn't want "regions" breaking away from any of its members states. The EU have been fuckin murder since this whole thing realy kicked off at the start of last month, they'v backed spain to the hilt and empowered them to act in the way they have including their comment about how they do not want member states fracturing, as if it should be any of their business at all, Cant believe so many indy supporters are tripping over themselves to join the EU as if its the greatest thing ever. no point swapping one foreign ruler for another. thank f**k we're leaving 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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