Next Scotland Manager Mk II

[The Spider]

7 minutes ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

I've seen a couple of folk mention lately that Malky deserves a chance because he's been through diversity training, or some such. What do these folk think happens on these courses? Is someone really going to hear a lecture on discrimination and think, "wow, it had never occurred to me that I'm an ignorant shitehawk"?

The thing he'll have taken away from it is that he needs to keep his grotty views to himself for the sake of his career. Nothing more.

Everyone deserves the opportunity at redemption, and after 10 years of working hard at Project Brave, continuing to show apologetic humility, endorsing diversity in all forms and walking that talk, then at that point I might have mellowed to concede that he had earned the right of redemption. But this, when the saliva from his wide range of shameful utterences is barely dry, is beyond the pale.

[Ludo*1]

It's nothing to do with Malky being a racist or not for me. It's more down to the fact he'd be a shite choice.

[Cerberus]

Malky, McLeish or Cardigan?
No wonder we're shite.

[Donathan]

There’s not much good to say about Malky Mackay but he’s probably at least a better option that Scotland Gemmill.

[RandomGuy.]

8 hours ago, Cerberus said:

Malky, McLeish or Cardigan?
No wonder we're shite.

This, an utterly uninspiring list. Its absolutely moronic to consider any one of the three. 

[fatshaft]

22 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

This, an utterly uninspiring list. Its absolutely moronic to consider any one of the three. 

Stephen Naismith says Watty "is a safe choice" 

 

Aye "safe", that's fit we need, somebody "safe". Nae inspiring, motiviational, nae tactically astute, nope, we need "safe". FFS.  What about Craig fucking Broon then?

[forameus]

9 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

It's nothing to do with Malky being a racist or not for me. It's more down to the fact he'd be a shite choice.

This.  I'm not going to wade in with the torches and pitchforks, because I have no idea whether he's just thick and said those things for "tha bantz" (not that that makes it better) or whether he sits at home in a bed-sheet stroking his Nazi memorabilia.  The only thing that should matter is that he would not be anywhere close to the top of the shortlist in terms of how good a manager he is.  And our shortlist is dreadful to begin with.

And once again, it's interesting to see the absolute rage that Mackay brings up over what he said, but Michael O'Neill stoats about Edinburgh 3 times over the drink-drive limit and very few even bat an eye.  While I'd rather there was neither, I'd imagine most would rather hear some good old fashioned end-of-the-pier racism than run into (quite literally) MON when he's pissed up and having a drive.

[Alert Mongoose]

And once again, it's interesting to see the absolute rage that Mackay brings up over what he said, but Michael O'Neill stoats about Edinburgh 3 times over the drink-drive limit and very few even bat an eye.  While I'd rather there was neither, I'd imagine most would rather hear some good old fashioned end-of-the-pier racism than run into (quite literally) MON when he's pissed up and having a drive.

This is something that perplexed me as well. I'm assuming that people were willing to overlook this serious conviction as he was seen as the better choice. It didn't sit well with me - most of us would be lucky to keep our job in such circumstances.

[forameus]

13 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

This is something that perplexed me as well. I'm assuming that people were willing to overlook this serious conviction as he was seen as the better choice. It didn't sit well with me - most of us would be lucky to keep our job in such circumstances.

 

I'm very much a believer in someone being given a second chance.  I'm happy to assume that both made stupid mistakes, been caught, and now won't do it again.  If it comes out that they have done it again, then no sympathy, but for now it is what it is.

I just find it an amusing irony that given MON was a quite good manager, it's not talked about, while Malky gets...well, malkied, because he isn't very good.  What's wrong with just calling him not very good and discounting him that way?  I mean, even the people against MON weren't doing it because of what he did as far as I could see.

[Savage Henry]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

This, an utterly uninspiring list. Its absolutely moronic to consider any one of the three. 

It's like the age-old question that all away fans have to put up with in Glasgow Central train station - "but whit if ye hud tae choose?"  There's no possible correct answer.

[The Moonster]

11 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

I've seen a couple of folk mention lately that Malky deserves a chance because he's been through diversity training, or some such. What do these folk think happens on these courses? Is someone really going to hear a lecture on discrimination and think, "wow, it had never occurred to me that I'm an ignorant shitehawk"?

The thing he'll have taken away from it is that he needs to keep his grotty views to himself for the sake of his career. Nothing more.

He's a fucking c**t of a man. His apology when it broke included this fucking brilliant line:

"I'd humbly ask people to ask themselves the question, if their own phone was taken and every private text was scrutinised there would certainly be an amount of embarrassing texts there for everyone."

He's sorry he was caught, he wasn't sorry for what he done.  After his diversity course and in the run up to the Holland game he said he "knew more on the subject than anyone in the room" due to the courses he'd been on.  Not only was his apology half pointing the finger at everyone else, but after his courses he feels he's better placed to judge what's offensive to people of different cultures than anyone else.  He's an arrogant c**t and I'm astonished the media are allowing him to be talked up again rather than lambasting the SFA for even considering it.

[The Spider]

1 hour ago, forameus said:

This.  I'm not going to wade in with the torches and pitchforks, because I have no idea whether he's just thick and said those things for "tha bantz" (not that that makes it better) or whether he sits at home in a bed-sheet stroking his Nazi memorabilia.  The only thing that should matter is that he would not be anywhere close to the top of the shortlist in terms of how good a manager he is.  And our shortlist is dreadful to begin with.

And once again, it's interesting to see the absolute rage that Mackay brings up over what he said, but Michael O'Neill stoats about Edinburgh 3 times over the drink-drive limit and very few even bat an eye.  While I'd rather there was neither, I'd imagine most would rather hear some good old fashioned end-of-the-pier racism than run into (quite literally) MON when he's pissed up and having a drive.

That's a very fair point. The missing element is whether MON was a frequent drink-driver, or simply had a moment of stupidity and got caught. To the best of our knowledge it's the latter, and whilst the consequences could have been horrific, society tends to forgive more quickly where there is the benefit of the doubt. Had Mackay sent the one stupid e-mail, or made one ignorant remark, then I'd be more inclined to put him alongside the Ron Atkinsons and Andy Grays of this world and abhor what they did but be inclined to believe they could be educated to change their old school views and adapt to modern thinking.

However, Mackay is of the modern generation, and brought up to be respectful and tolerant of different kinds of people. He also didn't work in a shipyard or other industrial environment but a bank for several years! In spite of that background he has shown himself to be a serial offender, and crucially here not just in one genre but across the entire spectrum of despicable atttitudes. So I think there's a huge difference between the actions of MON and Mackay, and in the case of the latter and despite my knowing him personally (and unlike some at Hampden I wouldbe prepared to explain to him without any animosity as to why my behaviour towards him is less cordial than previously), it will require several years of a visibly improved track record before I would consider him fit for consideration for this most visible of appointments.

[Frankie S]

1 hour ago, forameus said:

I'm very much a believer in someone being given a second chance.  I'm happy to assume that both made stupid mistakes, been caught, and now won't do it again.  If it comes out that they have done it again, then no sympathy, but for now it is what it is.

A history of spouting racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, sexist comments is not a ‘stupid mistake’. It’s either in your character, or it’s not. We’re not all just a couple of beers too many away from unleashing a tirade of abuse against minorities, even if we think those remarks are confined to the ‘safe’  company of our pals. That kind of behaviour shines a light into the essential nature of the man.

It’s maybe not all that surprising that the dinosaurs at the SFA think those kind of antediluvian views are compatible with holding a position of any influence within its organisation, let alone stewardship of our national team, but it’s certainly regrettable, 

[forameus]

2 minutes ago, The Spider said:

That's a very fair point. The missing element is whether MON was a frequent drink-driver, or simply had a moment of stupidity and got caught. To the best of our knowledge it's the latter, and whilst the consequences could have been horrific, society tends to forgive more quickly where there is the benefit of the doubt. Had Mackay sent the one stupid e-mail, or made one ignorant remark, then I'd be more inclined to put him alongside the Ron Atkinsons and Andy Grays of this world and abhor what they did but be inclined to believe they could be educated to change their old school views and adapt to modern thinking.

However, Mackay is of the modern generation, and brought up to be respectful and tolerant of different kinds of people. He also didn't work in a shipyard or other industrial environment but a bank for several years! In spite of that background he has shown himself to be a serial offender, and crucially here not just in one genre but across the entire spectrum of despicable atttitudes. So I think there's a huge difference between the actions of MON and Mackay, and in the case of the latter and despite my knowing him personally (and unlike some at Hampden I wouldbe prepared to explain to him without any animosity as to why my behaviour towards him is less cordial than previously), it will require several years of a visibly improved track record before I would consider him fit for consideration for this most visible of appointments.

Ron Atkinson repeatedly said a few questionable things (more baffling given he really seemed interested in giving black players a chance as a manager) about Desailly not having a brain.  Also, can't remember who it was about, but he also wondered aloud whether he would get away with another comment, then adding "I will unless his mum is watching up a tree".  Think it was also shown that Andy Gray was a pretty regular offender, and to say him and Keys haven't exactly shown they're sorry is a bit of an understatement.  Not sure Mackay deserves such vitriol if you're going to separate him from them.  

Also not buying the MON stuff.  Is it OK just because he didn't kill anyone?  I'm not saying he should be hung, drawn and quartered, but barely anyone even commented on it when he was mentioned.  It's hypocrisy, pure and simple.

I see where you're coming from though.  I'm in no way excusing what Mackay has done, and he deserves to be punished for it (which he has).  I'm purely questioning why MON gets a completely different treatment, and why it even matters what Mackay is done given he's a pretty terrible option while discounting it.

[forameus]

1 minute ago, Frankie S said:

A history of spouting racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, sexist comments is not a ‘stupid mistake’. It’s either in your character, or it’s not. We’re not all just a couple of beers too many away from unleashing a tirade of abuse against minorities, even if we think those remarks are confined to the ‘safe’  company of our pals. That kind of behaviour shines a light into the essential nature of the man.

It’s maybe not all that surprising that the dinosaurs at the SFA think those kind of antediluvian views are compatible with holding a position of any influence within its organisation, let alone stewardship of our national team, but it’s certainly regrettable, 

Well, it can be both.  If he holds those views privately, I'd say it's a pretty stupid mistake to put them somewhere where they could be exposed.  Not that he believed they would be, but still.  I dare say there's plenty of people still involved in football that hold far worse opinions, but just don't voice them.

But again, I am not defending him in any way.  I'm not going to suggest he's reformed because I have no idea about that.  I'm suggesting that maybe we should use ability as the first gauge of whether he's a good fit.  He fails that.

 

[Dullard Bluteau]

1 hour ago, forameus said:

Well, it can be both.  If he holds those views privately, I'd say it's a pretty stupid mistake to put them somewhere where they could be exposed.  Not that he believed they would be, but still.  I dare say there's plenty of people still involved in football that hold far worse opinions, but just don't voice them.

But again, I am not defending him in any way.  I'm not going to suggest he's reformed because I have no idea about that.  I'm suggesting that maybe we should use ability as the first gauge of whether he's a good fit.  He fails that.

 

I`m prepared to put aside your hatred of me and commend you on the previous couple of well balanced comments. I agree with what you have said and particularly agree that Mackay has done nothing in his career to merit either the job he now has, or even consideration for the Scotland manager job.

[Peppino Impastato]

17 minutes ago, Dullard Bluteau said:

I`m prepared to put aside your hatred of me and commend you on the previous couple of well balanced comments. I agree with what you have said and particularly agree that Mackay has done nothing in his career to merit either the job he now has, or even consideration for the Scotland manager job.

Tbf, Mackay's managerial CV is better than Michael o Neill s.  Just FYI.  Not qualified though.  

[IggyStooge]

12 hours ago, Cerberus said:

Malky, McLeish or Cardigan?
No wonder we're shite.

Anyone else starting to miss wee Strachan...?

[forameus]

1 hour ago, Dullard Bluteau said:

I`m prepared to put aside your hatred of me and commend you on the previous couple of well balanced comments. I agree with what you have said and particularly agree that Mackay has done nothing in his career to merit either the job he now has, or even consideration for the Scotland manager job.

Don't flatter yourself, I wouldn't waste much time on "hating" a complete stranger on an internet forum.  That would be ridiculous.

1 hour ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Tbf, Mackay's managerial CV is better than Michael o Neill s.  Just FYI.  Not qualified though.  

Aye, it was brilliant when Malky Mackay managed that international team to heights they'd only previously dreamed of.  I was tearing up.

[Guest]

Sometimes I wonder if I'm reading the Politically correct weekly when i read some of the posts on here. There's no doubt that the language used by Malky is no longer seen as acceptable, however it's hardly a hanging offence. I suppose it's just this modern culture of everyone being "outraged", "shocked", "disturbed" or any other over the top adjective for everything and anything, no matter how trivial in the bigger picture.

As an example, my 85 year old neighbour is a Gospel Hall elder, does lots for charity and is one of the nicest people you'd ever meet, however she still refers to the young lad who works in the local Chinese as "the wee chinky boy" and the young Pakistani lad who works in his fathers shop as "the wee paki boy", now, I agree it doesn't sit well with modern attitudes but ultimately she means no harm and nobody is being hurt.

I'm sorry but it's high time that many of you saw things with a bit of perspective.....................