JamesM82 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Where has this idea that McLeish is a negative old dinosaur come from? He was an attack-minded coach in his early manager jobs, particularly at Hibs. When he took the Scotland job the first time he took a team that had been somewhat effective but very defensive under Walter Smith, but made them a bit more expansive. The 3-1 v Ukraine was the best performance (in an attacking sense) that I have ever seen from a Scotland team, and I'm 36 years old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy2015 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Matt Ritchie plays for a team in the top half of the Premier League. James Forrest plays for a team in the 26th best league in Europe. There's a reason for that. I get the point that if most of the premier league teams want Armstrong, Forrest or Griffiths they simply buy them as they have the finances and give the players a chance to play on a much higher level.However when the Celtic players came in the last campaign there was a marked improvement in performances. Armstrong especially added something to the midfield that was missing the first half of the campaign. Scotlands international record in competitive matches when Armstrong has played has been played 4 won 3 drawn 1. (Against England)He’s only been in a losing team once in 6 internationals and that was when he came on as a 58 min sub against Costa Rica.Having 4 or 5 players from same team also seemed to help in terms of understanding etc. Rogers also has his players on another fitness level to the likes of Snodgrass Ritchie Patterson etc.I’m not a fan of the formation against Costa Rica preferred strachans 4-2-3-1.I would play 4-2-3-1GordonTierneyMckennaMulgrew Robertson Armstrong mctominayFraserMcgregorPhillipsGriffiths If we were 3 at GordonMulgrewMckenna TierneyRobertsonFraserForrest Armstrong Mctominay McGregorGriffiths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Gordon; Mulgrew, McKenna, Tierney; Fraser, McTominay, Armstrong, Robertson; Cairney, McGregor; Griffiths. Something like that, IMO (in my opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Gordon Hendry McKenna Mulgrew Tierney McGregor McTominey Robertson Forrest Griffiths Armstrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 2 hours ago, JamesM82 said: McLeish had basically the right idea in March, 3-4-2-1 with Robertson and Forrest as wing backs. It also negates the lack of a right back. I'm assuming he went 4-5-1 in these two games because he was trying to avoid an absolute pumping. Gordon McKenna - Mulgrew - Tierney Forrest - McTominay - McGeouch - Robertson Armstrong - McGregor Griffiths I'd go with that but would drop McGeouch for someone a bit more dynamic. MacDonald was crap against Costa Rica but was one of Fulham's best players last year. If he's performing in the top flight he's worth another go. Mcarthur is another decent option in there. I'm easy over Forrest vs Fraser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdiBairn Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 The idea of picking Dylan McGeouch over guys playing every week in the EPL is utter lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesM82 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, Marshmallo said: I'd go with that but would drop McGeouch for someone a bit more dynamic. MacDonald was crap against Costa Rica but was one of Fulham's best players last year. If he's performing in the top flight he's worth another go. Mcarthur is another decent option in there. I'm easy over Forrest vs Fraser. This is about right. What I'm wary of is forcing a square peg (attacking midfielder) into a round hole (defensive midfielder). Regarding Forrest / Fraser, I feel that Forrest is the safer pick. Fraser would be more of an impact substitute, someone to go on if we need a goal with 25-30 to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Aye, only Brazil and Germany have matched that record. Fitba daft country of 130 million people, they're naebody's mugs. Nor are Uruguay and they have won it twice. 3 million is it?? Of course no play stations, Xboxes or ash pitches there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 15 minutes ago, EdiBairn said: The idea of picking Dylan McGeouch over guys playing every week in the EPL is utter lunacy. How far does this go? Do you think that every single one of the 220 players who start in the English Premier League every weekend are better than the 264 who start in the English Championship? Does every player in a promoted team suddenly become better as soon as they go up, and every player in a relegated team get worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Problemo Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 How far does this go? Do you think that every single one of the 220 players who start in the English Premier League every weekend are better than the 264 who start in the English Championship? Does every player in a promoted team suddenly become better as soon as they go up, and every player in a relegated team get worse? I wonder if he would go as far as Charlie Adam and Darren Fletcher starting over Armstrong and McGregor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Dullard Bluteau said: 75% failure rate for McLeish now. His only excuses seem to be " it wasn't a heavy defeat". That's a great comfort to the fans, no doubt. Did the idiots who selected him really expect anything other than failure ? Michael O'Neill won one out of his first 18 games in charge of N. Ireland. Let's see how the games that really matter go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesM82 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, No_Problemo said: I wonder if he would go as far as Charlie Adam and Darren Fletcher starting over Armstrong and McGregor? Bring back Phil Bardsley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: Nor are Uruguay and they have won it twice. 3 million is it?? Of course no play stations, Xboxes or ash pitches there Iceland are an even better current example. There are instances all through history of small countries punching above their weight, even we've done it (more so in club football). Maintaining that over a lengthy period is more of a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kebab Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Bring back Phil Bardsley. You know something mate???That's an excellent shout!!![emoji1] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdiBairn Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 30 minutes ago, craigkillie said: How far does this go? Do you think that every single one of the 220 players who start in the English Premier League every weekend are better than the 264 who start in the English Championship? Does every player in a promoted team suddenly become better as soon as they go up, and every player in a relegated team get worse? Obviously not every single player in the EPL will be better than those in the Premiership but with a few exceptions, the vast majority are. Most Championship players are also better. It's not just about ability- it's about the level they're playing at. Guys used to playing against Agüero and Hazard are going to be much more used to the standards required than if they're playing against Connor Sammon and Andy Halliday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesM82 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, King Kebab said: You know something mate??? That's an excellent shout!!! I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Obviously not every single player in the EPL will be better than those in the Premiership but with a few exceptions, the vast majority are. Most Championship players are also better. It's not just about ability- it's about the level they're playing at. Guys used to playing against Agüero and Hazard are going to be much more used to the standards required than if they're playing against Connor Sammon and Andy Halliday. You’ve already showed how clueless you are with your proposed team mate. Just leave it there eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dullard Bluteau Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 58 minutes ago, Lurkst said: Michael O'Neill won one out of his first 18 games in charge of N. Ireland. Let's see how the games that really matter go... I get what you are saying, but surely every match Scotland play matters ? Every defeat plunges us further down the ratings. McLeish is a very bad appointment, he did not deserve to be employed by our country again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Mahelp Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 5 hours ago, C. Muir said: In the last 2 years aswell Celtic have faced PSG, Bayern Munich, Man City and Barcelona in europe. Outwith top seeds (who we'd be expected to lose to anyway), any country that we've faced in qualifying in the last few years are nowhere near the level of they 4 sides. So to argue McGregor, Armstrong et al shouldn't be in the squad cause they lost a couple of games to opposition of that standard is strange. I wasn't saying that they shouldn't be in the squad, they're obviously the best we've got. I was simply taking issue with the simplified reasoning that because some players play against other, better players, that somehow makes them always better players themselves. Actually, a fairly decent example is Leigh Griffiths. 95% of his time in a Scotland shirt he's looked like a fish out of water, and his club manager rarely trusts him to start in European games. But apparently he's the best we've got and we should be building a team around him. Doh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 I wasn't saying that they shouldn't be in the squad, they're obviously the best we've got. I was simply taking issue with the simplified reasoning that because some players play against other, better players, that somehow makes them always better players themselves. Actually, a fairly decent example is Leigh Griffiths. 95% of his time in a Scotland shirt he's looked like a fish out of water, and his club manager rarely trusts him to start in European games. But apparently he's the best we've got and we should be building a team around him. Doh. That last paragraph.DohThere’s no apparently about it. He’s head and shoulders above any other striker we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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