MazzyStar Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Saying mean things about Israel is what really matters of course. Even that weirdo Oz Katerji agrees with Kim Johnson. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.Aye.R Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 hours ago, MazzyStar said: Saying mean things about Israel is what really matters of course. Even that weirdo Oz Katerji agrees with Kim Johnson. I've never understood this media angle. Critical of Israel = Antisemitism. It's really that simple, eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) On 01/02/2023 at 23:24, V.Aye.R said: I've never understood this media angle. Critical of Israel = Antisemitism. It's really that simple, eh? It's extremely dishonest and cynical. It also insults folk's intelligence, as if we're all too stupid to notice this deceit. (Not that Johnson was explicitly accused of antisemitism over this. I realise you're meaning Labour's swift censuring of her comes in the context of previous antisemitism accusations against them). Edited February 2 by FreedomFarter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 In America Ilhan Omar has just been kicked off a committee for a supposedly antisemitic comment in the past, claiming that the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac) was buying influence for pro-Israel policies, which is undoubtedly true and is their whole raison d'etre . Meanwhile Marjorie Taylor Greene has been appointed to a committee despite claiming in the past that the Californian wild fires were ignited by Jewish space lasers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 P.S. I didn't see this before posting the above.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Since when were apartheid states not fascist? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 On 01/02/2023 at 13:09, MazzyStar said: Saying mean things about Israel is what really matters of course. Even that weirdo Oz Katerji agrees with Kim Johnson. Criticising the Israeli government is fine. No one has a problem with that but it was unwise and unnecessary to use the word ‘fascist’. She knew exactly what she was doing. Corbyn’s reach is still there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Partlow Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 The Israeli government is fascist and they're running an apartheid state. To claim otherwise just makes you look like a dribbling moron. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 28 minutes ago, Bodie said: The Israeli government is fascist and they're running an apartheid state. To claim otherwise just makes you look like a dribbling moron. You can strongly criticise the Israeli government without resorting to Nazi analogies that are not only lazy but trivialise the true nature and horror of the Nazi's crimes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 11 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: You can strongly criticise the Israeli government without resorting to Nazi analogies that are not only lazy but trivialise the true nature and horror of the Nazi's crimes. That’s not what is happening here though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Partlow Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 6 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: You can strongly criticise the Israeli government without resorting to Nazi analogies that are not only lazy but trivialise the true nature and horror of the Nazi's crimes. Fascism isn't necessarily analogous to Nazism. You're the only one who has mentioned Nazis here and inferring that I'm trivialising Nazi crimes or the Holocaust is incredibly condescending and disingenuous of you. Do better. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Stewart Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 The Israeli Finance minister Bezalel Smotrich literally called himself "a fascist and a homophobe". Now, I'm not claiming to be one of earth's leading experts on either the geopolitics of the Israeli / Palestine conflict, or of far-right political philosophies, but to me, if one state is essentially enacting genocide upon another, and that same state's elected leaders literally call themselves fascists whilst enacting fascist policies, then I'm pretty comfortable describing that state as "a fascist, apartheid state". Starmer is a fucking goon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 2 hours ago, Bodie said: Fascism isn't necessarily analogous to Nazism. You're the only one who has mentioned Nazis here and inferring that I'm trivialising Nazi crimes or the Holocaust is incredibly condescending and disingenuous of you. Do better. The irony. Your initial response is about as condescending as you could get. The terms Nazi or Fascist get thrown around lazily by those who should know better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I don't have much of a problem describing the Israeli Government as fascist tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 52 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: The terms Nazi or Fascist get thrown around lazily by those who should know better. What is your specific concern with describing the Israeli government, whose finance minister described himself as a fascist and is run by Bibi whose ideology and policy tracks pretty closely in many ways to what BN has linked above, as fascist? (again, you are the only person to make reference to Nazis here) Please don't repeat again some variation that people should not use these terms "lazily" (with which I agree). What is your material issue with the use of the word fascist in this particular instance? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: What is your specific concern with describing the Israeli government, whose finance minister described himself as a fascist and is run by Bibi whose ideology and policy tracks pretty closely in many ways to what BN has linked above, as fascist? (again, you are the only person to make reference to Nazis here) Please don't repeat again some variation that people should not use these terms "lazily" (with which I agree). What is your material issue with the use of the word fascist in this particular instance? It is not just this instance - for me it's the general use of the words, beit to describe the Israeli government, the US alt-right or any other right wing group. Overuse has meant the actual meaning has become blurred and can actually diminish what those groups, governments or individuals are doing. My own view that in the true meaning of the word the Israeli government aren't fascist (even those individuals in that government who say they are) - but that doesn't lessen how vile they are - call them out on the specifics, the racist nature of their policies - by using the word you just allow them to deflect. A more accurate description is that this Israeli government is a racist government bent on using race politics to divide and rule - deliberately stirring up a racist hornets nest in the hope that Israelis unite behind them. Edited February 3 by DeeTillEhDeh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 17 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: It is not just this instance - for me it's the general use of the words, beit to describe the Israeli government, the US alt-right or any other right wing group. Overuse has meant the actual meaning has become blurred and can actually diminish what those groups, governments or individuals are doing. My own view that in the true meaning of the word the Israeli government aren't fascist but that doesn't lessen how vile they are - call them out on the specifics, the racist nature of their policies - by using the word you just allow them to deflect. What is it the true sense of the word to you? And how does it allow them to deflect? Do you think that if the MP in question had publicly described Israeli government policy as vile and racist she would have had a different response from the press and the party? For me I don't forsee any meaningful difference in the response, and if that is what she (imo rightly) believes I don't see how lessening the force of that message would assist her. I don't really see how this is a tactical (given there is no way to avoid being monstered by the LP or the press by being honest about the Israeli government) or factual (unless you argue that a political movement can not be defined as fascist until it has gained a permanent hold of power and purged alternate political views, which negates fascism being an ideology at all really, which is obviously false) error. Edited February 3 by Genuine Hibs Fan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: What is it the true sense of the word to you? And how does it allow them to deflect? Do you think that if the MP in question had publicly described Israeli government policy as vile and racist she would have had a different response from the press and the party? For me I don't forsee any meaningful difference in the response, and if that is what she (imo rightly) believes I don't see how lessening the force of that message would assist her. I don't really see how this is a tactical (given there is no way to avoid being monstered by the LP or the press by being honest about the Israeli government) or factual (unless you argue that a political movement can not be defined as fascist until it has gained a permanent hold of power and purged alternate political views, which negates fascism being an ideology at all really, which is obviously false) error. I've added to my post - no - I don't think it is fascist as it stands in the true sense of the word - but that's a whole discussion about crowd theory and the leader principle. In terms of monstering - yes it would still happen but I think it's harder when you use specifics instead of a word that has lost its original meaning to some. The argument is now about her using the term fascist instead of a discussion about the vile nature of the Israeli government. Edited February 3 by DeeTillEhDeh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 SKS draping himself in the LGBT rainbow flag and as a result being absolutely rinsed on Twitter for his abstaining qualities was pretty hilarious last night. Maybe he thinks being an ally is just turning up occasionally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 20/08/2021 at 02:40, Baxter Parp said: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/15913273/ex-labour-mp-jared-omara-charged/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sunpoliticsreddit FRAUD CHARGE Ex-Labour MP Jared O’Mara charged with seven counts of fraud for ‘making fake expenses claims’ What. A. Face. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-64512690 Quote A former MP who submitted fake expenses of £24,000 to fund his cocaine habit has been convicted of fraud. Jared O'Mara, who represented Sheffield Hallam from 2017 to 2019, was thousands of pounds in debt to a drug dealer, the trial at Leeds Crown Court was told. He submitted fraudulent invoices to the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA), the body which regulates MPs' business costs and pay. O'Mara was found guilty at trial of six counts of fraud and cleared of two. The court heard O'Mara, 41, made four claims to IPSA for a total of £19,400 for services he claimed had been provided by "fictitious" organisation called Confident About Autism South Yorkshire. Prosecutors said the former politician had used the postcode of a McDonald's restaurant in the city as the company's business address. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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