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The Big Relegation Thread


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51 minutes ago, G51 said:

24DEC538.jpg

FiveThirtyEight's predictions using the SPI index.

Very surprised at St Johnstone having a 15% chance of going down - a new keeper and that team should be fine IMO.

I hope you're enjoying Ian Darkes meltdown on Twitter as much as I am...

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That's the spirit.
It is important to remain positive.
Tis the season x [emoji319][emoji318][emoji320]
The nature of the league set up seems to allow that to happen. Not just you: us two years ago. We should never have stayed up, but Dundee were somehow worse. We were the same for several years under Gus McP. Scraping by, offering not much.
I wonder if a change of set-up would help. It's a shame nobody ever talks about league reconstruction. 
I remember I used to get annoyed at St Mirren seemingly always finishing 10th or 11th without ever going down. Little did I know this would end up being our entire existence.
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I really fear for the Johnnies this season.
I don't mean this in a "haha you've got no fans" way but it's hard to see a club with their diminishing support base being able to finance a promotion back to the top flight.
We might never see them again.
No fans but our support base is diminishing? How does that work then?
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Is it just me or do these indexes always show the team that are bottom of the league are most likely to be relegated, the team second bottom the next likely and so on?
There doesn't seem to be much more to them than that.


It should make the kind of allowances for games in hand and recent form that we would Do intuitively

The point of them, if there is one, isn’t to rank teams positions by order of danger but to quantify that danger.

If you support St Johnstone then you’re not too bothered how many teams are in more danger than the Saints. Their immediate concern is how safe their team is, which according to the stats is 85%

But the idea that “St Johnstone could go down, but probably won’t” isn’t a revolutionary insight either

Except to manic depressives in Perth
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3 hours ago, Szamo's_Ammo said:

Is it just me or do these indexes always show the team that are bottom of the league are most likely to be relegated, the team second bottom the next likely and so on?

There doesn't seem to be much more to them than that.

You are not wrong but there are percentages too so it looks complex.

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24DEC538.jpg&key=cebee7db684b1c5529890f5972cf0fb7881c9dafdac29c93ff895e25273dc015
FiveThirtyEight's predictions using the SPI index.
Very surprised at St Johnstone having a 15% chance of going down - a new keeper and that team should be fine IMO.

The FiveThirtyEight's models for elite football are generally fairly pish, so I doubt their Scottish football one will hold much water. The methodology is far too flimsy.
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6 hours ago, craigkillie said:


The FiveThirtyEight's models for elite football are generally fairly pish, so I doubt their Scottish football one will hold much water. The methodology is far too flimsy.

Looking at the probabilities of relegation they add up to 150% which implies that they are assuming the play off final is a 50:50 chance

History suggests otherwise

 

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12 hours ago, G51 said:

24DEC538.jpg

FiveThirtyEight's predictions using the SPI index.

Very surprised at St Johnstone having a 15% chance of going down - a new keeper and that team should be fine IMO.

They weren't that accurate last season and this season they seem to have been saying that Barca were still the most likely side to win La Liga until very recently. They overweight previous seasons I think.

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3 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

Updated league table (pending appeal in January) looking very interesting now.

 

Screenshot_20201226-100826.png

What bizarre thing for the SPFL to do.

Why update the table when there's no resolution yet? Lodging an appeal doesn't automatically reverse the decision.

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2 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

What bizarre thing for the SPFL to do.

Why update the table when there's no resolution yet? Lodging an appeal doesn't automatically reverse the decision.

I think it's at least an acknowledgement that they were wrong to award the points while there was chance of an appeal.

Nobody's coming out of this looking good, mind.

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gq7lnMH.gif

Don't get me wrong, I think even after the appeal they will reapply the points deduction, or deduct us points, but it's entirely right that while there is an appeals process those points should not be applied.

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39 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

What bizarre thing for the SPFL to do.

Why update the table when there's no resolution yet? Lodging an appeal doesn't automatically reverse the decision.

The points should never have been allocated before all appeals were exhausted, takes us back to a sensible position, but Motherwell and Hamilton have been messed around due to no fault of their own.

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2 minutes ago, Ric said:

gq7lnMH.gif

Don't get me wrong, I think even after the appeal they will reapply the points deduction, or deduct us points, but it's entirely right that while there is an appeals process those points should not be applied.

That should have been how they done it from the get go. To come out and give Motherwell and Hamilton the points when there was even a chance of an appeal being lodged is just amateur hour, and a blind man could have seen this exact situation arising. There was nothing stopping them from making a statement outlining the forfeitures, with a paragraph at the end saying something like ‘league standings will reflect this decision pending appeal’ and everyone is covered when any eventuality plays out. The SPFL really don’t help themselves. 

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The points should never have been allocated before all appeals were exhausted, takes us back to a sensible position, but Motherwell and Hamilton have been messed around due to no fault of their own.
How have they been messed around? They knew the situation, I doubt they've played any differently because of some points being on the table.
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