Thereisalight.. Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Marshmallo said: Would imagine hundreds of cases a day is attributable to two builders in a roll shop in Auchterurie having their noses uncovered or "half dead junkies" rather than thousands upon thousands being crammed 30 at a time into the same room for 6 hours every day the length of the country. I certainly wasn’t blaming those people for the vast spread of it, just mentioning about the compliance of masks. Everyone knows it’s the hairdressers, gyms and nail bars that’s spreading it anyway. Nothing at all to do with hundreds/thousands of under 18’s being in the one building 5 days a week 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Aldo Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 I could be mistaken but didn't those who were medically exempt from wearing masks get some sort of lanyard or something to say so?I could have completely made this up right enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Referrals for child abuse have risen 80% since covid measures were put in place, I heard on the radio this morning. That might add some further context to the cost/benefit analysis being applied to the school situation. The sad reality of life in the United Kingdom. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 13 hours ago, Andrew Driver said: Give them a yellow, then a red and then use the bottle if they're confrontational. Order some more PPE and you'll feel more confidence confronting these fools. OK, I'm ready [big breath] Let's go get those eggs... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 2 hours ago, renton said: Whatever the schools are contributing its unlikely that they have suddenly become more infectious, so look for what has changed recently. How infections do you think are schools in terms of seasonal flu in August, December and June respectively? They amplify existing community transmission, which is why the same environment suddenly churns out an epidemic of disease at this time every single fucking year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 I heard his daughter made him run/swim all the way there though.Trundle / wheel surely ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Orton Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said: I could be mistaken but didn't those who were medically exempt from wearing masks get some sort of lanyard or something to say so? I could have completely made this up right enough. You can request them online via government website where it asks you no questions so anyone can get one. You can even buy an exemption lanyard from Amazon for 2 quid. There does seem to be a bit of a give up the ghost thing going on, especially amongst the young. Saying that was just in my local shop where some middle aged w****r was purchasing fags, a scratchcard and a copy of the Sun without his mask whilst being served by the owner who had a mask down by his chin. Great times and he ticked so many boxes on maskless bingo. Edited December 18, 2020 by Tynierose 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Quote Again, the basic principles here aren’t new, Benjamin said. The same thing basically happens with the flu every year, he told me. Kids get exposed at school and spend the time between Thanksgiving and New Year’s passing it around from one family gathering to another. As the holidays end, flu season starts to peak. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-even-a-small-thanksgiving-is-dangerous/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Is it really any different to shops asking someone for ID? You need a mask to enter the shop or a wee NHS card that exempts you, you either wear a mask or produce the card or the shopkeeper simply asks you to leave, much like they would if you didn't have proof of age. I'm not sure I agree with the notion that shopkeepers are scared to take on customers blatantly ignoring rules, probably more likely that those who aren't taking on customers don't care about the rules. We wouldn't have this issue if we made them compulsory. I am asthmatic but have zero tolerance of the "ave got asthma" crowd. Currently I have a mask on at work and at home - because my wife is having to self-isolate before her operation on Christmas Eve. If you can't wear a mask for a short trip to the shops then you shouldn't be out at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 11 minutes ago, virginton said: How infections do you think are schools in terms of seasonal flu in August, December and June respectively? They amplify existing community transmission, which is why the same environment suddenly churns out an epidemic of disease at this time every single fucking year. It doesn't look like there has been a spike in younger age groups in terms of symptomatic positives. Looks like increasing infections are being driven by older age groups. Of course, allowing for increased asymptomatic spread in children, but are we saying that asymptomatic spead has increased but symptomatic spread in kids hasn't? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mizfit said: It’s basically an alcoholic energy drink. Can feel your teeth dissolving as you drink it. I mind a description of alcohol and energy drinks on your heart - its kind of like having the handbrake fully engaged but the car in first gear, clutch down and accelerator depressed at the same time. Kinda put me off shite like vodka and red bull + dragon soop and all tbh Edited December 18, 2020 by Thistle_do_nicely 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Just now, renton said: It doesn't look like there has been a spike in younger age groups in terms of symptomatic positives. Looks like increasing infections are being driven by older age groups. Quote The same thing basically happens with the flu every year, he told me. Kids get exposed at school and spend the time between Thanksgiving and New Year’s passing it around from one family gathering to another. Think I'm just going to rinse and repeat this for every single time that you try to misrepresent data to prove that the infection factories are not actually the problem here. A daily reminder that SAGE itself calculates that having schools at full capacity adds fully 0.4 to the R rate, so if the government wants to take a single effective measure to curb a public health crisis then it already knows exactly what it must do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 More cash pumped into investigating why 20% of people have a bit of a cough 5 weeks after testing positive for a respiratory virus -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, virginton said: Think I'm just going to rinse and repeat this for every single time that you try to misrepresent data to prove that the infection factories are not actually the problem here. A daily reminder that SAGE itself calculates that having schools at full capacity adds fully 0.4 to the R rate, so if the government wants to take a single effective measure to curb a public health crisis then it already knows exactly what it must do. Well, I'm certainly not trying to misrepresent data here. The fact is we don't seem to have the same spike in symptomatic cases in younger age groups that are seen down south. I guess we don't have data on how, proportionally, asymptomatic cases scale to symptomatic ones across age groups. The point about seasonality is well taken, but of course will apply across age groups and other activities as well. It's interesting that the highest case loads in the last 7 days were recorded over the weekend rather than weekdays as is usually the case. Given that, the proximity to Christmas, and increasing retail activity, its a reasonable proposition that retail is driving some percentage of growth in cases. As for schools, as far back as September I was in favour of putting the older secondary school kids into blended learning, as I felt it would be a good balance of derisking covid infections in those most likely to transmit at the same rate as adults, vs. Disruption to the school system. The R value you quote, how wide are the confidence intervals on that number? It should be noted that Scotland has managed to so far avoid the spike seen in other parts of the UK, and were able to drive down infections base loads by 50% without shutting the schools. The question becomes, to what degree of economic dislocation is worth it to not precipitate a crisis in education, and to what degree would blended learning help? Is it a linear progression in risk? Does having kids in 1 or 2 days a week reduce the risk proportionally with respect to 5 days? Do you have data on that? If it requires shutting the schools to get rid of their influence on infections entirely, then what? Shut them for the time required to get down to hee haw cases. Then we open up again and it goes up again, right? Edited December 18, 2020 by renton 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 58 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said: I could be mistaken but didn't those who were medically exempt from wearing masks get some sort of lanyard or something to say so? I could have completely made this up right enough. My wife is exempt. It's not that they're given a lanyard, they can choose to wear them. A lot of larger shops give them out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Chief Exec of Acot racecourse on ITV racing there planning for restrictions on attendance until 2022 ffs !!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1885 Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 We wouldn't have this issue if we made them compulsory. I am asthmatic but have zero tolerance of the "ave got asthma" crowd. Currently I have a mask on at work and at home - because my wife is having to self-isolate before her operation on Christmas Eve. If you can't wear a mask for a short trip to the shops then you shouldn't be out at all. Absolute rubbish. A child with a behavioural disorder (such as autism), a person suffering from some form of PTSD, (possibly a woman who's been attacked previously), an elderly gentleman with alzheimers/dementia. You're saying that they shouldn't be allowed in the shops haha unreal.That's only 3 examples off the top of my head. I could go on. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 (edited) https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/report-37-children/ An aggregate of various other studies suggests that about 20% of kids who are infected remain asymptomatic. Then again, this aggregate of studies: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0241536 Reckons asymptomatic cases could be anywhere in the range of 20 to 75% Although this one seems to suggest something like 28% of all cases are asymptomatic: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/925128/S0745_Rapid_review_of_asymptomatic_proportion_of_SARS-CoV-2_infections_in_community_settings.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiNk9KJ09ftAhV1nVwKHZLwB60QFjAPegQIDhAB&usg=AOvVaw03h44CrgO2-BMNcqdaPhuk Within that document they remark that only one study seemed to put numbers on differences between asymptomatic kids and adults which was 23% in kids (which matches with the first aggregate study) and 7% in adults. That would support the thesis that kids are more likely to be asymptomatic but then again the percentage of asymptomatic adults is on the low end. It does suggest though, that while 20% is a high number, its not the case that a single symptomatic classroom case is hiding 10 asymptomatic ones. Indeed, it suggests that you need to get to 5 schools with 1 case each before you have a certainty of finding one asymptomatic case. At least, thats my interpretation of the above. Happy to be disabused of incorrect notions. Edited December 18, 2020 by renton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Ron Aldo said: I could be mistaken but didn't those who were medically exempt from wearing masks get some sort of lanyard or something to say so? I could have completely made this up right enough. Guy in my work has a wee card he keeps in his wallet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 You can still be fined for not wearing a mask*, can't you? That would suggest to me they are mandatory. *Unless you have a valid medical exemption, of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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