Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[101]

4 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

They could also mandate masks like other countries have done, but they refuse to do so.

They do, the employer isn't a fucking hospital, its not their area of expertise to decipher who is Covid positive and who isn't. 

The union can't do anything about it if its not in breach of legislation. They are obviously unsafe, its not about ;feels; its a black and white situation, they are clearly at risk every time they go to work.

They clearly think they have made it mandatory in every reasonable scenario as far as they feel it's proportional.

Their employer might not be a hospital but they can check a temperature. Also I think it would be odd to wear a mask into the factory floor and then take it off and put it back on when you go to the toilet etc etc.

[Gordon EF]

1 hour ago, 101 said:

Well he's rebranded the Brexit Party into the Reform party at at 11 they will be announcing what they will be doing in Scotland for the coming election. But I have to agree the only caveat I would add is who will get less support "Reform UK" or the "Unity Alliance". I think Reform are an anti lockdown party which is interesting.

They'll surely split each others vote. Could be a disaster, with both parties only getting 500 odd votes each instead of 1000.

[hk blues]

9 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Whilst this is maybe more aggressive than I'd put it but I have sympathy with this view.

Wearing a mask is shite but I'm perfectly happy to do it out of consideration for people in proximity but I really see no need to go through the discomfort on a walk where there's no one around or even worse whilst out running by myself.

In my place we have to wear both a mask and a visor - it's shite but the rules are there to protect us.  Sure, we can tell them to F***K off but then expect to be paying fines on a daily basis and don't expect to be going to a shop or such anytime soon as you won't get in.  Just yesterday I was on a local jeepney and one of the passengers wasn't wearing his mask - the driver on the jeepney next to ours at the traffic lights told him to put it on.  Here, it's even required in cars when there are no passengers. When we're walking within our community very few people wear them (including myself) which shows people only comply because they have no choice, not because they think it's safer.    

[coprolite]

43 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

They're mandatory inside shops, factories are no different except you spend ten times as long there with ten times as many people. Masks are not mandatory on factory floors, where my dad has to spend 80% of his time to do his job.

They've contacted HSE and been told they are not in breach of regulations. Well the regulations are clearly wrong then aren't they, and that's NS's responsibility.

If your Dad feels unsafe then he shouldn't go in. It's a nonsense to suggest that none of his colleagues should earn a wage because one guy smoked since he was 14.

[vikingTON]

13 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Precisely. What's been mandated by Scotgov is that employers make the workplace covid secure, pretty sure they are required to demonstrate this to the regulator and most employers are being pushed to make their covid RA public. Deliberately open ended though as all employers and work settings are different. The havent been prescriptive about very much throughout this. If an employee feels that the measures taken by the employer are inadequate, then they should absolutely report the employer and action would be taken by the HSE.

Then theres also raising mask wearing as a safety suggestion... Or just choosing to wear a mask.

 

7 minutes ago, 101 said:

Exactly the Govt couldn't visit every work place and set out the exact measures because some places will have 3 people in a 300m2 shed.

 

 It's up to the employer to decide they could temperature check everyone staggered the shifts all the stuff supermarkets can't for members of the public. 

They will comply if 2m distancing is maintained at all times and masks are worn in all common areas, canteens, corridors, entrances, changing rooms etc etc.

If you feel unsafe at work then you can 100% speak to the union regardless if you feel it's breaking legislation or not.

A 'leave it to the employer to work it out' strategy that helps explain why we are where we are now.

The claim that the onus should be on the employee to contact union officials/philpy them to HSE is utterly ridiculous. This is a pandemic impacting every part of life, it is not a top shelf stacked too heavily. Unions have insufficient power to make changes (even the teachers failed to secure a credible working environment) and the HSE is not equipped to swoop on every workplace in the middle of a pandemic.

The SG should absolutely be prescriptive about what is required in an indoor (and outdoor) workspace respectively. They have been prescriptive about how many people you can mix with from another household for months so what makes the far more risky workplace environment magically exempt?

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 minute ago, 101 said:

They clearly think they have made it mandatory in every reasonable scenario as far as they feel it's proportional.

Their employer might not be a hospital but they can check a temperature. Also I think it would be odd to wear a mask into the factory floor and then take it off and put it back on when you go to the toilet etc etc.

No they don't, how hard would it be to say masks are mandatory inside all public buildings all the time? That's what other countries have done. What is 'proportional' when you're talking about giving people  a basic level of protection at their workplace?  Its not a draconian measure to say wear a mask.

Again, who cares what you think would be odd, human beings are odd and there's hundreds of them in there. Masks are not mandatory so they take them off any opportunity they get. If they were mandatory they wouldn't do that.  NS can make it so, but has not.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

7 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I'm not doubting your info there, but you can find levels of risk in just about anything going down that route. I'm not sure why infections in churches are relevant to him wearing a mask outdoors with no one around him either.

I'm sure everyone wearing masks outside would provide a small additional layer of safety but I'd argue that closing more workplaces and individuals taking more personal responsibility would be far, far more effective.

Absolutely, people are calling this a lockdown when its nothing of the sort. Hundreds of thousands of people are going to work all over Scotland, that's not a lockdown.

You can find levels of risk in everything, and we are in a pandemic, so as far as possible our government should be trying to protect us from this. In Spain, since March, as soon as you walk out your front door you have to wear a mask, everywhere, all the time, no matter what. The police will arrest you if you don't. There's no reason we couldn't do the same.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

3 minutes ago, virginton said:

 

A 'leave it to the employer to work it out' strategy that helps explain why we are where we are now.

The claim that the onus should be on the employee to contact union officials/philpy them to HSE is utterly ridiculous. This is a pandemic impacting every part of life, it is not a top shelf stacked too heavily. Unions have insufficient power to make changes (even the teachers failed to secure a credible working environment) and the HSE is not equipped to swoop on every workplace in the middle of a pandemic.

The SG should absolutely be prescriptive about what is required in an indoor (and outdoor) workspace respectively. They have been prescriptive about how many people you can mix with from another household for months so what makes the far more risky workplace environment magically exempt?

Brilliant post.

[Gordon EF]

14 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

I don’t think you can say “excess deaths in the last year”. Feb my Dad passed away due to pneumonia. Saying excess deaths since mid to late March would be more accurate 

Really sorry to hear that. Unless there was an unusually high rate of pneumonia deaths in early 2020, his probably wouldn't count as excess though. The figures will account for a certain number of people dying during different months of the year.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

4 minutes ago, coprolite said:

If your Dad feels unsafe then he shouldn't go in. It's a nonsense to suggest that none of his colleagues should earn a wage because one guy smoked since he was 14.

Again that's juvenile shite that only a fanny would come out with.  All him and me want is a basic level of protection that is offered to all in society.  So your workplace isn't safe for you just now, so you're off, why isn't he?  His workplace was deemed not safe in March because of the amount of infections, now with infections higher apparently its safe?

And its too much to ask our government at least mandates people have to treat his workplace like a fucking supermarket and wear a mask?  You're an arsepiece mate.

[Thereisalight..]

19 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

Also Christmas shopping = ok, schools when cases were shooting up = ok, Christmass dinner = ok

Going for a walk by yourself without a mask = woah youv got blood on your hands

I do a lot of local hillwalking. 99% of the time I never see another person. Fck wearing a mask to do that as I already struggle to breath going up hills as it (unfit bassa)

[Thereisalight..]

5 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Really sorry to hear that. Unless there was an unusually high rate of pneumonia deaths in early 2020, his probably wouldn't count as excess though. The figures will account for a certain number of people dying during different months of the year.

I can’t speak for the rest of Scotland/UK but I do know locally “pneumonia” deaths in Jan/Feb/March were unusually high 

[Dons_1988]

6 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Absolutely, people are calling this a lockdown when its nothing of the sort. Hundreds of thousands of people are going to work all over Scotland, that's not a lockdown.

You can find levels of risk in everything, and we are in a pandemic, so as far as possible our government should be trying to protect us from this. In Spain, since March, as soon as you walk out your front door you have to wear a mask, everywhere, all the time, no matter what. The police will arrest you if you don't. There's no reason we couldn't do the same.

Well clearly you could shut absolutely everything, couldn't you?

Only leave the house for medical appointments or absolutely essential work, supermarkets do delivery only etc etc. And who knows, maybe that's the right answer in the current circumstances. But there broadly seems to be agreement across society that we don't need to be as draconian as that, and a balance needs to be struck. Finding that balance is difficult.

 

[peasy23]

That's the school bus just pulled up here for the kids that go to Ayr for RC schooling, at least half full !!!

I don't know what the criteria are or how strictly they are applying it down there, but there are only 10 pupils out of close to 800 at my daughter's school who have been given permission to attend as children of key workers or have been classed as at increased risk if they stay at home.

As a result the roads were dead around our way this morning as all the normal school traffic is off the road.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

5 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

They could also mandate masks like other countries have done, but they refuse to do so.

They do, the employer isn't a fucking hospital, its not their area of expertise to decipher who is Covid positive and who isn't. 

The union can't do anything about it if its not in breach of legislation. They are obviously unsafe, its not about ;feels; its a black and white situation, they are clearly at risk every time they go to work.

Im absolutely aghast that a poster who despite being presented with clear evidence that the Scottish government agencies WERE responsible for pandemic planning in terms of devolved matters now thinks the buck does stop with the Scottish Government in terms of the health response to a pandemic. 

[vikingTON]

6 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

I do a lot of local hillwalking. 99% of the time I never see another person. Fck wearing a mask to do that as I already struggle to breath going up hills as it (unfit bassa)

A mask does not make it more difficult to breathe.

I'd be against obliging people to wear a mask outdoors as a blanket measure but the behaviour really should be encouraged for busy outdoor spaces at the moment (such as the exit of a supermarket, which every single time is blocked by about five wifeys putting their purse inside their bag and inside their other bag, talking to Senga about the weather and wondering if it would be better to get a taxi up the road, with their trolley parked diagonally away from them - a truncheon to the face would also be acceptable policy for this).

Edited January 11, 2021 by vikingTON

[s_dog]

2 hours ago, 101 said:

1100 sites now in Scotland to get the vaccine 750 are GP practices but good to see a fair chunk of non medical facilities being used. Only just over 3000 staff doing them so hopefully as the number of sites grow staffing them will rise with that.

I think have so many locations is far better than England having something like 6 meaning folk have to travel.

I hope we don't have any of the same carry-on with queues of over-80's waiting outside GP's, or them being sent letters to attend vaccination centres miles away (& in some cases, when they've already had their jag at their GP surgery). Was it just in Scotland they talked about the elderly getting it done at GP's so they didn't have increased risk of attending somewhere where there are lots of other people?

[coprolite]

16 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Again that's juvenile shite that only a fanny would come out with.  All him and me want is a basic level of protection that is offered to all in society.  So your workplace isn't safe for you just now, so you're off, why isn't he?  His workplace was deemed not safe in March because of the amount of infections, now with infections higher apparently its safe?

And its too much to ask our government at least mandates people have to treat his workplace like a fucking supermarket and wear a mask?  You're an arsepiece mate.

This is highly disingenuous. 

Your original post was also bemoaning factories being open. It was obvious from the context and my post that i was taking exception to that complaint, not the subsequent 3 pages of you shifting the goalposts to mask wearing, which is a far more reasonable complaint. 

34 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

 

The union can't do anything about it if its not in breach of legislation. They are obviously unsafe, its not about ;feels; its a black and white situation, they are clearly at risk every time they go to work.

If they are obviously unsafe then there's a breach of legislation. 

[101]

16 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

They'll surely split each others vote. Could be a disaster, with both parties only getting 500 odd votes each instead of 1000.

Fingers crossed

14 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

No they don't, how hard would it be to say masks are mandatory inside all public buildings all the time? That's what other countries have done. What is 'proportional' when you're talking about giving people  a basic level of protection at their workplace?  Its not a draconian measure to say wear a mask.

Again, who cares what you think would be odd, human beings are odd and there's hundreds of them in there. Masks are not mandatory so they take them off any opportunity they get. If they were mandatory they wouldn't do that.  NS can make it so, but has not.

A factory or similar is not a public building. If you were the only person in 30m2 I don't think it would be proportional to demand they wear a mask.

The employer clearly feels there is no risk to staff as I said before they must have every measure other than face coverings in place on the factory floor and masks will be worn in communal areas which is law so clearly there is basic level of protection.

14 minutes ago, virginton said:

 

A 'leave it to the employer to work it out' strategy that helps explain why we are where we are now.

The claim that the onus should be on the employee to contact union officials/philpy them to HSE is utterly ridiculous. This is a pandemic impacting every part of life, it is not a top shelf stacked too heavily. Unions have insufficient power to make changes (even the teachers failed to secure a credible working environment) and the HSE is not equipped to swoop on every workplace in the middle of a pandemic.

The SG should absolutely be prescriptive about what is required in an indoor (and outdoor) workspace respectively. They have been prescriptive about how many people you can mix with from another household for months so what makes the far more risky workplace environment magically exempt?

We currently exist in a structure that employers look at the legislation and decide the appropriate level or response I don't see once the structure has been updated why we revert to spoon feed business. The public aren't used to this level of restriction therefore prescriptive measures are better for them

Business know their setting better than anyone else and at the end of the day they will carry the can for out breaks in their work place. The public of course will be expected to push the boundaries to the limit but for a business to do the same and risk closure seems reckless in the extreme.

[101]

6 minutes ago, s_dog said:

I hope we don't have any of the same carry-on with queues of over-80's waiting outside GP's, or them being sent letters to attend vaccination centres miles away (& in some cases, when they've already had their jag at their GP surgery). Was it just in Scotland they talked about the elderly getting it done at GP's so they didn't have increased risk of attending somewhere where there are lots of other people?

I think that was the case and it 100% makes sense getting elderly people to attend a familiar place to get vaccinated.