Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Michael W]

9 minutes ago, Steven W said:

That the old firm have taken a up a sizeable chunk of the First Minister's Covid briefing is sad reflection on Scotland

Don't think it is - they weren't in Dubai for work and they certainly weren't there to fulfill a sporting fixture. The trip was at best dubious if not against the travel guidance and should never have gone ahead. It was basically a holiday, which is against the travel guidance. Calling it a training camp is stretching the definition of "work" too far. 

They've also returned with a player testing positive and another dozen having to isolate. This is entirely self-inflicted. 

The spotlight this has shown on football has been unwelcome. That's the lower leagues now suspended and I don't think it's a coincidence given the publicity this little jolly to Dubai generated. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Michael W

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

14 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

So people already struggling and deciding to end their life is of “zero importance” compared to covid deaths? Just wow

That's my opinion, I've lost friends to suicide and been very depressed myself, but this is a pandemic and takes priority over everything, absolutely everything.  If we did that now we could be out the other side by April.  

Support should always be offered to people who need it, but we shouldn't adjust our policy in tackling a pandemic because of it.  

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

14 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

So you can die of anything so long as it's not covid then? Arsehole

Its not a comparable situation.  We're not getting a hundred suicides a day in Scotland are we?  

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

15 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Just to add on to my previous post. I read a 6 year old girl died because her cancer treatment was stopped due to the covid situation. Why are people accepting “covid above all illnesses”. People killing themselves because they’re struggling mentally, people dying because their treatments are being stopped or appointments cancelled, yet that’s fine. I despair 

Its not fine, but as a society we have to address Covid first.  This is like a war situation. Realistically nobody is going to stop you going out for some exercise anyway so its a pointless conversation.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

12 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Assuming that 80% of salary is enough for everyone to live on and that it's viable to mothball the business, sure. That's not a very sensible assumption though. 

Again you're using one failing to justify another.  Govt could make that 100% couldn't they?  They've done that in other countries haven't they?  So your issue is really with them, not this.  You should be lobbying them to increase that to 100% and compensate businesses (his work already got millions from Scottish Enterprise btw) then we could act like a responsible serious country in tackling a pandemic and not ask people to risk their lives five days a week unless its absolutely necessary and every possible protection has been put in place.

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Its not a comparable situation.  We're not getting a hundred suicides a day in Scotland are we?  

3 died in yesterday's figures from Covid, 2 suicides on average daily, pre covid.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Just now, welshbairn said:

3 died in yesterday's figures from Covid, 2 suicides on average daily, pre covid.

Seven thousand died from Covid in the last ten months.  How many suicides?

[coprolite]

2 minutes ago, virginton said:

It's a reality that literally millions of people and countless other businesses have had to deal with since March. A company does not have a divine right to continue operating in a pandemic because it provides income or else literally nothing would be closed right now.

That's obviously true.

But that doesn't mean that we can close everything without any consequences just because we have furlough available. 

Someone has to make a decision about what the acceptable trade off is between economic and public health consequences of things staying open. It is particularly difficult to judge these where the health effects can lead to economic effects and vice versa. I'm glad i don't have to make that call. 

That's not to say that the government should be beyond criticism, but to zero in on one single aspect and not consider any context isn't really a valid basis for criticism. 

It is hard to see why the government wouldn't mandate masks for any shared spaces (with reasonable exclusions). The actual costs would be miniscule. 

It's a lot harder to see why we should be closing everything that's not 100% safe. 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

I don't mean to be insensitive to anyone's mental health problems believe me I have a hell of a lot of sympathy.  But this is how other countries got into the place we need to be in by being draconian as f**k, and incase anybody hasn't noticed we're sitting on the most infected island on earth.  This is an urgent situation and we're talking about temporary measures.

As I say nobody is going to stop exercise outdoors realistically anyway.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Carnoustie Young Guvnor

[Sergeant Wilson]

11 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

That's my opinion, I've lost friends to suicide and been very depressed myself, but this is a pandemic and takes priority over everything, absolutely everything.  If we did that now we could be out the other side by April.  

Support should always be offered to people who need it, but we shouldn't adjust our policy in tackling a pandemic because of it.  

Tough love, you tell'm Pep!

[WhiteRoseKillie]

2 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

I totally agree, she is putting her polling numbers above the lives of my parents.  That's what I'm angry about.

That's your parents who, despite decades of scientific evidence, continue to smoke? Are you angry at them?

BTW, Strurgeon didn't decide what category your parents fell into. The Government set out the criteria, and the NHS applied them. Are you angry at their GP?

No, you're not. You're just angry, without the mental capacity to work out where you should direct that anger. The thing, is, son, sometimes shit (like Covid) happens, and isn't actually anyone's fault. The SG isn't getting everything right, not by a long chalk, but  you should thank your favourite SkyFairy they're diiluting the effect of the cúnts in Westminster.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Just now, WhiteRoseKillie said:

That's your parents who, despite decades of scientific evidence, continue to smoke? Are you angry at them?

BTW, Strurgeon didn't decide what category your parents fell into. The Government set out the criteria, and the NHS applied them. Are you angry at their GP?

No, you're not. You're just angry, without the mental capacity to work out where you should direct that anger. The thing, is, son, sometimes shit (like Covid) happens, and isn't actually anyone's fault. The SG isn't getting everything right, not by a long chalk, but  you should thank your favourite SkyFairy they're diiluting the effect of the cúnts in Westminster.

I am actually, but that's completely separate and entirely juvenile. Do they deserve to die of Covid cause they smoke? Is that your point?  Do they forfeit their rights to expect a reasonable level of protection in their workplace because they smoke?  Especially my mum providing care in our society? Do you actually have a point?

No she didn't, that's why I didn't complain about that, maybe you struggle with comprehension skills, would you like me to type a bit bigger in future?  Increase the font size?  Use smaller words?  What would work for you?  But she did decide not to mandate masks in all public places at all times, as many other countries have done (you were given a thorough run down of restrictions in the Philippines that go way  beyond here, funnily enough their infection rate and deaths are way below here I wonder why that is eh) and that was within her power to do. She chose not to.

I think you'll find its you that's lacking mental capacity here and is just angry because I exist, so are finding reasons to disagree with everything I say simply cause I said it.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

2 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Its down to government to set the parameters of what is actually safe.

This is an entirely separate issue to safety glasses and hilarious to link it to such.  Does the govt in a normal situation demand you cover your face when going into Tesco under threat of fine if you don't? No. Could govt make an identical demand of people in facotries?  Yes of course they could.  Have they? No.  

No, it absolutely isn't. Covid is, at bottom, a Health issue, and therefore falls under the remit of the HSE.  If your old man is being sent into a workplace where SD is not practical, and compensatory measures such as PPE are not supplied, he is perfectly within his rights to refuse to work, with no sanction being applied. The employer is de facto  putting him knowingly at risk. I'd suggest he has a word with his Union, but I'm becoming increasingly clairvoyant when I wonder what your response will be.

[Distant Doonhamer]

In Tesco earlier. Pretty quiet. Everyone wearing a mask. Roads were quiet too.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

3 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

No, it absolutely isn't. Covid is, at bottom, a Health issue, and therefore falls under the remit of the HSE.  If your old man is being sent into a workplace where SD is not practical, and compensatory measures such as PPE are not supplied, he is perfectly within his rights to refuse to work, with no sanction being applied. The employer is de facto  putting him knowingly at risk. I'd suggest he has a word with his Union, but I'm becoming increasingly clairvoyant when I wonder what your response will be.

You're talking shit mate and having difficulty understanding. PPE is supplied and used in line with govt regulations, but those regulations do not stipulate masks must be worn at all times inside. What is hard about that to understand?  Don't reply I'm not interested x

[Alert Mongoose]

44 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Just to add on to my previous post. I read a 6 year old girl died because her cancer treatment was stopped due to the covid situation. Why are people accepting “covid above all illnesses”. People killing themselves because they’re struggling mentally, people dying because their treatments are being stopped or appointments cancelled, yet that’s fine. I despair 

I’m struggling to see anyone making such a simplistic binary choice.

[coprolite]

7 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Again you're using one failing to justify another.  Govt could make that 100% couldn't they?  They've done that in other countries haven't they?  So your issue is really with them, not this.  You should be lobbying them to increase that to 100% and compensate businesses (his work already got millions from Scottish Enterprise btw) then we could act like a responsible serious country in tackling a pandemic and not ask people to risk their lives five days a week unless its absolutely necessary and every possible protection has been put in place.

In theory, in an ideal world, that sounds reasonable. We don't live in an ideal world though and action is limited by real world political possibilities and reactions. There isn't the consent of the population for that and there isn't the political will to enforce against the wishes of the population. 

It might have worked last March but there's no way it would now. There have already been protests against the current light restrictions.

In practical terms, define "absolutely necessary". At one end, no one can argue that say a bookies is necessary nor that an a&e department is not. But what about, say, road maintenance? If that's ok what about the company that makes the safety gear for the workers? If they also make chefs clothes can they only have one production line going? 

I'm sure you have a ready made delineation to cover all of economic activity as it is so straightforward? 

[Thereisalight..]

2 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

I’m struggling to see anyone making such a simplistic binary choice.

The bold Carnoustie

Edited January 11, 2021 by Thereisalight..

[Steven W]

Didn't catch all of today's briefing. What I did see seemed to focus largely on Celtic. Would I be right in saying that it was never touched on about strengthening the current restrictions further? After the jungle drums had beat about it for the past few days, I fully expected it to at least get a mention of some sort.

[Thereisalight..]

26 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Seven thousand died from Covid in the last ten months.  How many suicides?

Dying from covid and dying with covid within 28 days of a test are very different things 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Thereisalight..