League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[HibsFan]

The last few pages here have been mind numbing stuff.

It was boring even just skimming through it, some feat from the boeys.

[Guest JTS98]

1 hour ago, Sparticus said:

I see where your coming from but as someone said earlier, that would just encourage clubs to stop chasing and stop improving.

Really is up to clubs to get out and be the best they can be.

The more I consider this argument, the less it makes sense.

Take Kilmarnock. As it stands they have a glass ceiling of third. They have no reason to aim any higher because winning the league over 38 games isn't going to happen. The current rewards of finishing third are almost negligible. A brief upturn in prize money, a brief trip to Europe. That's it.

It's not much to chase for the rest of eternity, is it?

But if they knew that finishing 3rd didn't just put them into Europe, but gave them a shot at winning the title, surely it would be even more in their interests to have a strong side and finish high in the table, and then be more competitive in the play-offs. The rewards are greater and they lose nothing.

I'm not sure why a couple of posters have suggested this would mean clubs would just stop trying to improve. It's certainly not what happens in any competitions with play-offs that I know of.

Do English Championship clubs just phone it in because they can finish sixth and get into the play-offs anyway?

Edited May 7, 2020 by JTS98

[vikingTON]

12 hours ago, Alan Stubbs said:

Nobody is fooling anycunt with this two horse race chat. Not supporting the scrambled together, mostly shite, proposals on offer doesn't make you some Clyde Superscoreboard football da who likes the Old Firm dominating. Likewise, wanting league reconstruction doesn't make you some altruistic progressive who is dragging Scottish football into the 21st century.

Most of the people arguing for reconstruction seem to have landed on a way forward that exactly lines up with their team being in a higher league than if the season is called as is (Ayr United, 16 team top league ffs). Spare us the concern trolling about the state of the Scottish Premiership if your only motivation for reconstruction is getting your shite football club into it.

I agree that there is a significant degree of self-interest and mock concern for the top flight being heaped on, but that doesn't make arguments for reconstruction invalid in their own right. The main reason why long term change is needed is actually the state of the second tier, which is both a financial basketcase and declining in standard at an alarming rate. If the status quo is in place for another five years then I think you would see a fair few second tier clubs enter administration even before accounting for the effects of this shan virus. Expansion of the top tier is obviously in the self interest of second tier clubs but is also a benefit to the game overall; the stability of top flight clubs themselves is not helped by bouncing in and out of a complete mess of a second tier.

[Arch Stanton]

2 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

I’m sure I remember reading it was 16 but I think that was in TAG so wasn’t authoritative .

 

Is this one of those Zombie statistics?

 

Could any Arabs of a certain age elucidate on the matter?

 

Apologies if I got this wrong

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2011/jan/19/dundee-united-most-efficient-championship-winners

"The Terrors indeed used 20 players in the league that season – McAlpine (36 starts), Malpas (31+3sub), Stark (31+1), Gough (34 starts), Hegarty (36 starts), Narey (36 starts), Britton (7+3), Milne (30+4), Kirkwood (26+5), Sturrock (28 starts), Dodds (34+2), Bannon (31+1), Payne (2+1), Phillip (5 starts), Holt (18+7), Taylor (1+2), Reilly (8+8), Clark (1 start), McNeil (1 sub) and Murray (1 start)."

[Alan Stubbs]

4 minutes ago, virginton said:

I agree that there is a significant degree of self-interest and mock concern for the top flight being heaped on, but that doesn't make arguments for reconstruction invalid in their own right. The main reason why long term change is needed is actually the state of the second tier, which is both a financial basketcase and declining in standard at an alarming rate. If the status quo is in place for another five years then I think you would see a fair few second tier clubs enter administration even before accounting for the effects of this shan virus. Expansion of the top tier is obviously in the self interest of second tier clubs but is also a benefit to the game overall; the stability of top flight clubs themselves is not helped by bouncing in and out of a complete mess of a second tier.

Of course. It was just the slavering about Old Firm dominance 5 or so pages ago that I was picking up on. There are real reasons to justify looking at reconstruction and 'fine, well if you love the Old Firm so much, Ayr United can just stay down then' isn't one of them.

[sergie's no1 fan]

Since when was it the responsibility of other clubs to help out the badly run football clubs?

United, Dundee, Falkirk, Inverness, Dunfermline have all made huge losses or are in debt because they have been badly run.

It is possible for football clubs to operate in the Championship and be reletvlively successful without making eye watering losses.

[Morton Supporter]

3 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

There will be a difference in perspective between normal fans who generally only go to home games and the ones who go to most of the away games on this.

 

 

 

I don’t think I would agree with that, sorry.

I would think most people decide to go to games - either on a game-by-game basis, or when buying a season ticket - based on:

 

- finances

- other weekend commitments, e.g. childcare or work

- how sure you are of how your team are going to get on, good or bad

- distance and travel time

- whether friends/family are going, if you’re in it for the social aspect

I don’t imagine the fact that each other team makes up 10-11% of your fixtures has much bearing at all on fans’ decisions to go to games, unless of course they were looking for an excuse not to.

in which case, I think they should just leave the rest of us to keep on enjoying what we have for what it is, imperfect and all.

Yes it’s a skunner to draw teams from your own league in the Cups, but that comes back to the point in my earlier post that you either radically restructure - by removing things like seedings which give large swathes of bigger clubs byes to later rounds - or you just grin and bear it because the downsides of the alternatives are far greater.

[Morton Supporter]

3 hours ago, Scotty Tunbridge said:

The last few pages here have been mind numbing stuff.

Apart from mine.

[btb]

Isn't Budgie's 3 weeks up tomorrow?

[the west curve]

Are the bookies giving odds on reconstruction? I’d say the status quo would be 1-50.

[frankthetank22]

What is the reason for change to a 14?

As said before a 16/18, could offer an opportunity to play once at once away, something that I'd like to see but a 14, what are the positives from moving from 12 to 14?

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, the west curve said:

Are the bookies giving odds on reconstruction? I’d say the status quo would be 1-50.

Whatever you want.

[Aim Here]

8 minutes ago, frankthetank22 said:

What is the reason for change to a 14?

As said before a 16/18, could offer an opportunity to play once at once away, something that I'd like to see but a 14, what are the positives from moving from 12 to 14?

Other than stopping Hearts from being relegated, you mean?

[Sparticus]

2 hours ago, the west curve said:

Are the bookies giving odds on reconstruction? I’d say the status quo would be 1-50.

1-50? It wont get you rich, but it's still free money.

[Sparticus]

3 hours ago, btb said:

Isn't Budgie's 3 weeks up tomorrow?

Really dont see what twins have to do with football?

[EdTheDuck]

2 hours ago, frankthetank22 said:

What is the reason for change to a 14?

As said before a 16/18, could offer an opportunity to play once at once away, something that I'd like to see but a 14, what are the positives from moving from 12 to 14?

What are the advantages of playing once at once away (sic) ?

[Lex]

Other than stopping Hearts from being relegated, you mean?

Indeed. Reconstruction is not a realistic option.

The only realistic and fair options are we either void it and keep Hearts up and United down or finish it and send Hearts down and promote United.

Neither of these are particularly palatable to a section of the administrators of our league.

So reconstruction to muddy the waters and for us to somehow end up with a top flight with both Hearts and United in it.

No.

[Guest JTS98]

5 hours ago, Aim Here said:

Other than stopping Hearts from being relegated, you mean?

That's a disingenuous was of wording it.

Hearts were relegated six years ago in a scenario where the relegation was more or less inevitable before the season started. League reconstruction was never mentioned, nobody ever raised the prospect of trying to find a workaround to keep Hearts up.

I've asked a few times and nobody has given me an answer, but if Hearts are some kind of special case, then why did nobody bother in 2014? Why did nobody bother in 1999 when we were bottom with 8 games to go? Why now and only now?

The answer to that is quite obvious and is clearly that it is unfair to relegate a team with 20% of the season still to go. It would equally apply to any team.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

5 hours ago, frankthetank22 said:

What is the reason for change to a 14?

As said before a 16/18, could offer an opportunity to play once at once away, something that I'd like to see but a 14, what are the positives from moving from 12 to 14?

Absolutely none.

People say they want more variety but with the proposal you actually get less variety. Bottom 8 teams will play 70% of their games against each other. With 30% of games against the Top 6

Where as now the bottom 6 have 52% vs each other and 48% of games against Top 6.

So the 14 team proposal is going to end up seeing the same opponents more often.

[RossBFaeDundee]

So how much credence do we lend to noted arsewipe Stewart Robertson in his airing of potentially classified SPFL info?