League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[The Master]

27 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

It's this thing in a box called the Internet. You can get an Internet from John Lewis I think. You just wind it up and away it goes. It's really VERY good.

 

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

1 minute ago, GordonD said:

Bottom line is, it's a straight choice.

1) Reward Hearts for having a shite season and punish Dundee United for having a good one

2) Reward Dundee United for having a good season and punish Hearts for having a shite one

Which is less unfair?

Or find a solution that works for everyone in a weird one-off situation?

Bottom line is it's not just about Hearts anyhow as everyone seems to conveniently ignore.

[Shotgun]

3 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

Or find a solution that works for everyone in a weird one-off situation?

Bottom line is it's not just about Hearts anyhow as everyone seems to conveniently ignore.

The "solution that works for everyone" that nobody, including Hearts has been able to find? It's all about Hearts and f**k anyone else.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Shotgun

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Forest_Fifer said:

Does JKB have an line of roasters coming over here on a fucking rota system?

 

8 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

They must have a rota of "useful idiots" to keep regurgitating the same FACTS, fair play to them, that takes some dedication.

 

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

2 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

The solution that works for everyone that nobody has yet managed to find? It's all about Hearts and f**k anyone else.

I don't think not ending the league so quickly or temporary reconstruction would have fucked anyone to the degree PT, Stranraer, Hearts (and others who would have benefited from reconstruction) are being fucked. Spreading the financial hardship around and taking a community "do no harm" approach to solving the problem seems to be a fairer solution but then I'm a socialist so I would say that.

Edited July 7, 2020 by 8GamesToGo

[Gorgie greatness]

@Well Wellare you gonna red dot every post of mine ya ferkin weirdo?

[Mark Connolly]

1 minute ago, 8GamesToGo said:

I don't think not ending the league so quickly or temporary reconstruction would have fucked anyone to the degree PT, Stranraer, Hearts (and others who would have benefited from reconstruction) are being fucked. Spreading the financial hardship around and taking a community "do no harm" approach to solving the problem seems to be a fairer solution but then I'm a socialist so I would say that.

A community "do no harm" approach like poaching another club's manager, shortly after specifically naming them in your court case against the rest of the community?

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, Gorgie greatness said:

@Well Wellare you gonna red dot every post of mine ya ferkin weirdo?

It's a coloured circle, who gives a tinker's cuss?

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

16 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Hey 8Gamestogo, have you told us which team you support ?

I imagine if it was Ross County or Hamilton who had been bottom of the league when the music stopped you would still be on P&B tonight making exactly the same posts and pushing exactly the same arguments.

Because this has feck all to do with Hearts and everything to do with justice, fairness and human rights. Just like Mother Theresa Budge.

Take your self-righteous pseudonym and shove it right up your relegated arse.

No, I only came on PB because Doncaster said yesterday the league could definitely not have been played to a finish and I wanted to see if that was the general consensus on the only general Scottish football forum I know about. I did that because that's the actual reality of now, not some imaginary parallel universe you've just created where Ross County or Hamilton finished bottom.

I actually have a view on that. Yes, they would have complained loudly and threatened legal action and taken advice as PT did. No, they probably would not have taken legal action because they probably couldn't afford it, unless someone chipped in. Which they might have, as with PT. As I say I don't know how I would react to imaginary situations. I probably would have jumped on an imaginary unicorn and flown around a bit to see what it's like. Edit: a pegasus, not sure unicorns can fly. Will check.

Edited July 7, 2020 by 8GamesToGo

[Well Well]

1 minute ago, Gorgie greatness said:

@Well Wellare you gonna red dot every post of mine ya ferkin weirdo?

Its no fair..??

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

5 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

A community "do no harm" approach like poaching another club's manager, shortly after specifically naming them in your court case against the rest of the community?

As far as I know people are allowed to change jobs during a pandemic and a manager is kind of a key appointment for a football club preparing for the seaosn. How dare you poach Tranmere's manager! Them taking legal advice for the same reason we have, too.

Who threw the first punches anyhow? As I say, Hearts and PT (remember them?) are simply doing what clubs Belgium, Holland and France did, as is our right. Going o court because there's no other option. And we have been told we have a case and did the right thing in elating going to court to see if reconstruction could happen.

Edited July 7, 2020 by 8GamesToGo

[Tannadeechee]

3 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

16 minutes ago, Tannadeechee said:

What part of we are not allowed to play football because Government will not allow it is difficult to understand?

I am happy to debate, you are putting forward no intelligent alternatives. Just saying what about them, what about them isn't intelligent in the slightest.

If want to debate that is fine, TRY IT. Specifics. I'll try and help you...

Clubs were struggling for cash

The cash made no difference. In any case, is the solution to plunge 3 clubs into more financial distress or spread it around?

Clubs had been lobbying SPFL for a solution

Where are the options all laid out for everyone to see. Clubs said they had no time to consider the Resolution, It was rushed.

Clubs could not afford to pay staff with no fans ie no income coming in

Yes, and. Same for everyone. The prize money could possibly have come to them anyhow. Or so I believe form Hearts and PT's court petition.

Government banned them (effectively) from playing.

Yes. but they didn't order them to call the league.

New Sky contract complicated things, we had to start or pay penalties

Did it? I don't know. We'll find out hopefully when documents are released.

If clubs weren't shut down and had to stay in training, they couldn't furlough staff.

How did other countries manage then? All clubs could have played at the same fitness level. 

EPL is playing behind closed doors but still have to pay very large penalties to broadcasters

As have we anyhow, so why not just play if we're paying to end the league anyhow?

As it turns out the deadline to have leagues finished for European competition is August 3rd

yes, and my view is we could have finished.

We do NOT have permission by Government to play football, behind closed doors or otherwise.

Doesn't mean we couldn't have put together a plan to make it happen, like other countries did. All industries have been lobbying governments non stop.

It was at the time suspected that lockdown would continue untill January.

Yes. Still didn't have to end the league.

Many thought we would have no football in 2020.

We might still not have any football. 

Hearts asked players to take wage cuts. In light of this how could they pay for the necessary arrangements to play football.

How did all the other leagues manage it. how would I know? All I know is many other leagues including smaller clubs than ours contains have managed it.

There's some starting points. Try debating them with sensible counter arguments that fit into what is and what is not allowed by our Government.

 

 

 

Sorry I missed you wanted me to reply to each point. There you go. I'm ok with you disagreeing. I know as much as you do. The arbitration might reveal more around broadcasting and the whole process.

Thank you,.it wasn't difficult, much better at least can see where you may be coming from. That sort of thing would have far better engagement from others.

My answers

Cash did make a difference. Maybe not to Hearts (other reasons for that) but many of the other 41 clubs were desperate for it.

We aren't party to the discussions, but other clubs have said there were lobbying of SPFL to release funds. The money to the bottom.amount each club could have received had already been handed out. According to SPFL rules (Budge disagrees, but nothing we can see shows her.point of view, that's not to say it's wrong but disagreed by many) the rest could only be paid out if leagues were finished.

 

If.clubs could not pay staff and players you could not continue league.as.clubs could not afford it.

Government banned them from playing. Therefore they COULDN'T finish league. Only way under lockdown it could have been done is all players, club staff, referees were isolated in hotels. All at great expense. Not sure where they'd train. All this while no money was coming in. How much would this cost?

Would this have been required for part the leagues? Remember league 1 and 2 are pretty much part time and players may well be employed in essential worker roles and could not do this. 

The documents ARE NOT being released. They are only being made available to the arbitration panel and those involved in it. Any publication of these.documents.will in effect be contempt of court. This is in Lord Clark's ruling.

The EPL is paying back Sky and BT even though they are continuing. They also can't afford not to due to the sums involved. We have paid back money to Sky, BT, and BBC. It was cheaper, it is believed than the penalties involved if new contract delayed.

 

The Scottish clubs couldn't afford to play. Even with players furloughed, clubs are still struggling. 

Other countries have different rules and different government rules. Other countries have far larger TV deals, meaning the clubs aren't living hand to mouth.

If the government will not allow us to play, players are not allowed to train if furloughed (clubs could not afford to not furlough players, see Hearts and other clubs wage cuts) UEFA deadline, when would the games be played? Can't just say.could have played them, when?

We have been speaking to government. Government has said no. See one of many reports

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/20/nicola-sturgeon-dampens-hopes-of-scottish-football-returning

Scot Gov still has not allowed us to play in August yet.

 

Other leagues are allowing fans in. Other countries have lifted lockdowns.

France have finished and nothing the clubs could do about it, they were banned.by Government from playing

"The Ligue 2 season is also over after French Prime Minister Edouard Philippe announced no sporting events, even those behind closed doors, could take place before September."

 

 

If league could be finished, at least give an idea how it could have been finished. Much better debating.

[welshbairn]

9 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

Or find a solution that works for everyone in a weird one-off situation?

Bottom line is it's not just about Hearts anyhow as everyone seems to conveniently ignore.

Bottom line is that most clubs would have taken a significant hit if they had agreed to 14-10-10-10, and your club threatened to bankrupt them if they didn't. Unsurprisingly they didn't take kindly to the offer. 

[Well Well]

4 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

As far as I know people are allowed to change jobs during a pandemic and a manager is kind of a key appointment for a feet ball club preparing for the seaosn. How dare you poachTranmere's manager!

Who threw the first punches anyhow? As I say, Hearts and PT (remember them?) are simply doing what clubs Belgium, Holland and France did, as is our right. Going o court because there's no other option. And we have been told we have a case and did the right thing in elating going to court to see if reconstruction could happen.

You getting angry?? Your spelling and grammar is all over the place. Go to the corner of the padded room and count to ten then come back to your computer

Edited July 7, 2020 by Well Well

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Bottom line is that most clubs would have taken a significant hit if they had agreed to 14-10-10-10, and your club threatened to bankrupt them if they didn't. Unsurprisingly they didn't take kindly to the offer. 

How much?

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

5 minutes ago, Tannadeechee said:

Thank you,.it wasn't difficult, much better at least can see where you may be coming from. That sort of thing would have far better engagement from others.

My answers

Cash did make a difference. Maybe not to Hearts (other reasons for that) but many of the other 41 clubs were desperate for it.

We aren't party to the discussions, but other clubs have said there were lobbying of SPFL to release funds. The money to the bottom.amount each club could have received had already been handed out. According to SPFL rules (Budge disagrees, but nothing we can see shows her.point of view, that's not to say it's wrong but disagreed by many) the rest could only be paid out if leagues were finished.

 

If.clubs could not pay staff and players you could not continue league.as.clubs could not afford it.

Government banned them from playing. Therefore they COULDN'T finish league. Only way under lockdown it could have been done is all players, club staff, referees were isolated in hotels. All at great expense. Not sure where they'd train. All this while no money was coming in. How much would this cost?

Would this have been required for part the leagues? Remember league 1 and 2 are pretty much part time and players may well be employed in essential worker roles and could not do this. 

The documents ARE NOT being released. They are only being made available to the arbitration panel and those involved in it. Any publication of these.documents.will in effect be contempt of court. This is in Lord Clark's ruling.

The EPL is paying back Sky and BT even though they are continuing. They also can't afford not to due to the sums involved. We have paid back money to Sky, BT, and BBC. It was cheaper, it is believed than the penalties involved if new contract delayed.

 

The Scottish clubs couldn't afford to play. Even with players furloughed, clubs are still struggling. 

Other countries have different rules and different government rules. Other countries have far larger TV deals, meaning the clubs aren't living hand to mouth.

If the government will not allow us to play, players are not allowed to train if furloughed (clubs could not afford to not furlough players, see Hearts and other clubs wage cuts) UEFA deadline, when would the games be played? Can't just say.could have played them, when?

We have been speaking to government. Government has said no. See one of many reports

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/20/nicola-sturgeon-dampens-hopes-of-scottish-football-returning

Scot Gov still has not allowed us to play in August yet.

 

Other leagues are allowing fans in. Other countries have lifted lockdowns.

France have finished and nothing the clubs could do about it, they were banned.by Government from playing

"The Ligue 2 season is also over after French Prime Minister Edouard Philippe announced no sporting events, even those behind closed doors, could take place before September."

 

 

If league could be finished, at least give an idea how it could have been finished. Much better debating.

Yeah, to be fair I came on with a pretty balanced post and got told to f**k off. So there's that.

You seem to be arguing the SPFL actually considered finishing the league. That's just ridiculous. Everything points to that very much not being how it went down. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by 8GamesToGo

[RavyDavy]

Germany wasn't hit as bad as us. Germany's GOVERNMENT allowed them to play. Scot, N.I. authorities have not. What happens in Germany is completely and utterly irrelevant.
Germany speak German, why don't we?
Germany drives on the right, why don't we?
Answers to both those questions is the same as the football question, we are different countries,.different laws, different situations, different authorities.

We don't speak German because of the brave Hearts players who fought in WW1... keep up

[Tannadeechee]

15 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

Or find a solution that works for everyone in a weird one-off situation?

Bottom line is it's not just about Hearts anyhow as everyone seems to conveniently ignore.

Your right 16 teams have lost out on potential promotion playoff places. Some gave them up knowingly, because they felt what they were doing was for the best. Making the best of a bad situation, to do the least amount of harm to the least amount of teams as possible. 

[Stellaboz]

Just as well, it's fucking difficult.

[Bose]

If I had more red dots than posts I’m pretty sure I would think about what I’m posting. It’s the old saying that there is a bellend in every workplace and if you don’t know who it is it’s probably you.