League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[Golden Gordon]

8 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Read that on JKB - they're convinced they're going to get millions and bankrupt Scottish football and are quite happy about it

Kind of bursts the ball if there's no-one left to play against.

[Ric]

4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The delay is most likely down to the SPFL gathering the necessary documents and also the process of actually appointing the panel. I can't see why the actual argument would be hugely different - the SPFL rules haven't changed in the last two weeks, nor have the events that actually took place from March to May.

It's a fair argument. I just wonder if, in the light of the documentation being made available, they might want to hone their approach.

[kingjoey]

1 hour ago, Ric said:

We've not seen the arguments being made, if it is a narrow legal point you'd be right, if it's a more generalised "we've been treated unfairly here are our broad concerns" then I believe the arbitration panel have more leeway in deciding than the courts do.

I could be wrong here, but I've always felt the arbitration panel was for arbitrating not adjudicating.

There was a guy who actually is an arbitrator on Sportsound recently. He said that the arbitration panel do not consider fairness at all in their process, simply the legal matters involved.

[Ric]

Just now, kingjoey said:

There was a guy who actually is an arbitrator on Sportsound recently. He said that the arbitration panel do not consider fairness at all in their process, simply the legal matters involved.

Are they required to provide an equally narrow judgement though or do they have a broader scope?

If it is genuinely just a replication of a court case, except going through the arbitration process then it could very well end up with Hearts getting absolutely nothing other than a large legal costs bill, followed by an SFA sanction. Which, I have to say, would be a glorious outcome.

[Tannadeechee]

1 hour ago, Ric said:

Again, we just don't have the case being put forward. It may be the exact same as before hand, but I'm guessing as there has been some delay it's not.

Surely if it is a different arguement, then that is them an extremely "unfair" act by the complainers. In other words they have gone to court with one argument, then get to arbitration with a different one? It wouldn't fly IMHO.

Delay will be due to 1 or more, or indeed all of

Arbiters needing clear schedules as they have been busy with other matters

Witness statements being taken

Length of time SPFL has required to get the information requested.

Complainer's legal team & experts going over the information received for issues etc.

[Ric]

7 minutes ago, Tannadeechee said:

Surely if it is a different arguement, then that is them an extremely "unfair" act by the complainers. In other words they have gone to court with one argument, then get to arbitration with a different one? It wouldn't fly IMHO.

Not sure if it is to be honest. Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but didn't the CoS pretty much say "this isn't us, buddy, you need to go to arbitration because that's what you signed up for". I don't think there is any obligation that they should present exactly the same case to the arbitration panel, the only onus upon them is to have a case ready for arbitration. What's more if documents were passed over to them showed there was an obvious infringement (playing Devil's Advocate) then it would be only right they use that as part of their case.

 

Edit: I should say, I am absolutely no expert on this, more just musing over the issues without any information about what case they will put forward.

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Ric

[RandomGuy.]

17 minutes ago, Ric said:

then it could very well end up with Hearts getting absolutely nothing other than a large legal costs bill, followed by an SFA sanction. Which, I have to say, would be a glorious outcome.

And then we get swathes of Hearts fans all over this thread claiming it proves corruption, and its not them who've been in the wrong.

Budge literally cannot lose in terms of the Hearts support, she's got all them all neatly wrapped up. An incredible feat considering the levels she's dragged that club too.

[kingjoey]

19 minutes ago, Ric said:

Are they required to provide an equally narrow judgement though or do they have a broader scope?

If it is genuinely just a replication of a court case, except going through the arbitration process then it could very well end up with Hearts getting absolutely nothing other than a large legal costs bill, followed by an SFA sanction. Which, I have to say, would be a glorious outcome.

Certainly what I’m hoping for.

[Ric]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

And then we get swathes of Hearts fans all over this thread claiming it proves corruption, and its not them who've been in the wrong.

Budge literally cannot lose in terms of the Hearts support, she's got all them all neatly wrapped up. An incredible feat considering the levels she's dragged that club too.

They are going to do that anyway. No matter the outcome they are locked in a Sevco-esque death spiral.

1 minute ago, kingjoey said:

Certainly what I’m hoping for.

It would be a hoot!

I mean at the start I did have a bit of sympathy, but not from the moment successful businesswoman Ann Budge started giving it the "we're too big for this to happen to us" bullshit. Contrition is clearly not a word in her dictionary.

[Billy Jean King]

Looked like they still were in that game of walking football they played at the 82 World Cup. Up there with St Mirren vs Celtic 86 and England and Belgium in their 2018 game as one of the most blatant examples of teams trying their hardest not to win a football match.

Bitter........not much lolol

[Tannadeechee]

15 minutes ago, Ric said:

 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Ric said:

Not sure if it is to be honest. Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but didn't the CoS pretty much say "this isn't us, buddy, you need to go to arbitration because that's what you signed up for". I don't think there is any obligation that they should present exactly the same case to the arbitration panel, the only onus upon them is to have a case ready for arbitration. What's more if documents were passed over to them showed there was an obvious infringement (playing Devil's Advocate) then it would be only right they use that as part of their case.

 

Edit: I should say, I am absolutely no expert on this, more just musing over the issues without any information about what case they will put forward.

 

No problem, neither am I just an avid."researcher". I do take your point though on the case.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Tannadeechee
Made an arse of quote system

[Florentine_Pogen]

HKB is just an utter clown collective.

Jugaloo FC.

[Coventry Saint]

58 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Budge literally cannot lose in terms of the Hearts support, she's got all them all neatly wrapped up. An incredible feat considering the levels she's dragged that club too.

There's a strong Brexit/Trump parallel there. Reflects the mentality of society's thickest. If anything bad happens, it's a conspiracy or a lie. It's scarily easy to get people onside if you only ever tell them what they want to hear, and allow them to blame their problems on other people.

[C4mmy31]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

And then we get swathes of Hearts fans all over this thread claiming it proves corruption, and its not them who've been in the wrong

Does that excuse really hold any water when they are responsible for appointing 1 member of the arbitration panel who in turn is responsible for agreeing who the chairperson is?

 

[Mark Connolly]

9 minutes ago, C4mmy31 said:

Does that excuse really hold any water when they are responsible for appointing 1 member of the arbitration panel who in turn is responsible for agreeing who the chairperson is?

 

Yeah but they have to pick them from an SPFL list!!!1!!11111111!

[Tannadeechee]

10 minutes ago, C4mmy31 said:

Does that excuse really hold any water when they are responsible for appointing 1 member of the arbitration panel who in turn is responsible for agreeing who the chairperson is?

It will hold as much water as

"It's not fair"

&

"We could have finished the league"

 

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

And then we get swathes of Hearts fans all over this thread claiming it proves corruption, and its not them who've been in the wrong.

Budge literally cannot lose in terms of the Hearts support, she's got all them all neatly wrapped up. An incredible feat considering the levels she's dragged that club too.

Budge has been in charge 6 years. In that time she literally saved the club (do you think that maybe buys her some time with some fans?), helped facilitate FoH that brings in around 130k a month to the club, secured Tynecastle as our stadium by redeveloping it after years of uncertainty around the ground, won the most competitive championship probably ever in one year despite budgeting for two, and got into Europe at the first attempt despite budgeting for top 6 only, and before Neilson left was heading for a second 3rd in a row minimum that almost never happens.

After that, a shit 2.5 years that included one of our worst ever second half of a season and one of our worst ever seasons, with a meh season sandwiched in between. It's not been the shit show you think it's been, 19/20 aside. A good 3.5 years, including a cup final and title, one meh season and 1.5 horrific seasons. 

Not saying she's not made mistakes (appointing Levein manager while letting him keep his DoF role mainly) and it's probably time to appoint a CEO, but it's not all been doom and gloom over the 6 year period. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by 8GamesToGo

[buchan30]

Exactly. Ann Budge is already.on record as saying relegation would cost them £3 million so where does the £8 or £5 million come from?

She’s at it. The extra 5 million is for her retirement fund for her grandchildren.

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

9 minutes ago, Tannadeechee said:

It will hold as much water as

"It's not fair"

&

"We could have finished the league"

 

Most reasonable people think it's unfair. Your own manager thinks it's unfair. Members of the SPFL board that facilitated the decision think it's unfair.

We could possibly have finished the league. We'll never know because a decision was taken to end it far too early. Through a vote that may or may not be legal.

Given the press is now full of stuff about possible crowds in August when we were told October at the very earliest, it's clear that things change quickly. Holding off a decision to give us as much chance of finishing the league would have been sensible, while at the same time fully exploring other more sensible options like reconstruction.

Instead, here we are. And some still think the SPFL have handled this in a competent way after years of slagging off the SPFL.

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

Budge has been in charge 6 years. In that time she literally saved the club (do you think that maybe buys her some time with some fans?), helped facilitate FoH that brings in around 130k a month to the club, secured Tynecastle as our stadium by redeveloping it after years of uncertainty around the ground, won the most competitive championship probably ever in one year despite budgeting for two, and got into Europe at the first attempt despite budgeting for top 6 only, and before Neilson left was heading for a second 3rd in a row minimum that almost never happens.

After that, a shit 2.5 years that included one of our worst ever second half of a season and one of our worst ever seasons, with a meh season sandwiched in between. It's not been the shit show you think it's been, 19/20 aside. A good 3.5 years, including a cup final and title, one meh season and 1.5 horrific seasons. 

Not saying she's not made mistakes (appointing Levein manager while letting him keep his DoF role mainly) and it's probably time to appoint a CEO, but it's not all been doom and gloom over the 6 year period. 

She bought the club, got you promoted, made the fans pay for multiple mid table finishes and a shite new stand, then left you exactly where she got you (Championship), intends to take the money she put in out the FOH fund, and leave you with a massive wage bill that's in no way sustainable for a second tier side. 

The fans have put more money into the club than Budge, who's sole role has been to consistently hire folk to waste it, yet here you are fighting her corner as if she's the messiah.