George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[Gordon EF]

4 minutes ago, hk blues said:

OK.

So we are saying it's OK to define people by their sex but not their race?  

Can we say the blind guy, or the bald guy?  

Or is this no-no only applicable to race/colour?

It does depend on context though doesn't it. If you came into an office looking for the marketing manager and I just pointed to her and said "The female" I think that would be pretty weird behaviour. If you asked me how you would recognise someone amongst a crowd and I said they were the only woman or only black person, I'd see that as fine.

[hk blues]

6 minutes ago, true_rover said:

52 minutes ago, hk blues said:

If he was the only white guy amongst a group of black guys would it be wrong to say the white guy?
Genuine question.

But the likelihood is that the description wouldn't be used, as Demba Ba pointed out in his complaints following Webo's red card.

I'd use it if it was the clear distinguishing feature - most of the time it would be I'd imagine

[hk blues]

6 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

It does depend on context though doesn't it. If you came into an office looking for the marketing manager and I just pointed to her and said "The female" I think that would be pretty weird behaviour. If you asked me how you would recognise someone amongst a crowd and I said they were the only woman or only black person, I'd see that as fine.

That makes sense.  

My main concern would be that a number of posts/posters here are simply making a blanket statement that using someone's colour as a way to identify them is wrong (racist?)  

[Gaz]

The last couple of pages min:

[welshbairn]

19 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Thinking as I go, I suspect the pronunciation of Negru in Romanian might sound a bit like another word that is definitely offensive.

I'm not sure how many present would know that the Romanian word sounds a bit like an English slur. The French for seal is phoque by the way, we used to have great fun asking the shy French assistant for the translation at school.

Edited December 9, 2020 by welshbairn

[invergowrie arab]

Absolutely shocked to see the usual suspect throw up a wall of "nothing to see here " around the ref 

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Absolutely shocked to see the usual suspect throw up a wall of "nothing to see here " around the ref 

Who are the usual suspects?

[coprolite]

7 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Absolutely shocked to see the usual suspect throw up a wall of "nothing to see here " around the ref 

Not seeing that at all apart from Mr Waldo.

Everyone else seems to be taking the view that we shouldn't jump to conclusions about his motivation. 

The boxing's an interesting one. I usually dance about giving it "the guy with the gold trim" etc until the mrs, who is mixed race herself, goes "the black one?" Still, I'm not going to say that. It's not because I don’t want to offend, it's because i feel more comfortable mystelf. 

 

[Ira Gaines]

10 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Not seeing that at all apart from Mr Waldo.

 

Did you not consider that was the usual suspect?

[Gaz]

He said "usual suspect", not "usual suspects".

[coprolite]

5 minutes ago, Andre Drazen said:

Did you not consider that was the usual suspect?

You're correct, it was singular. 

I'm like a man in an orthopaedic shoe. 

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, Scary Bear said:

I’m just trying to be reasonable about it. Would you like someone coming up and pointing at you? I would see that as a provocative act; It would anger me.

If they were all white guys, then saying he was the white guy would be pretty much no help. If there was only one white guy, then it would be the most obvious difference at first glance in a team all wearing the same clothing. I understand there were two black men, and that the fourth official is white and I get that in this day and age it has caused an incident. 

I'd much rather someone pointed at me to identify me than refer to the colour of my skin, aye.

I don't think it's reasonable to throw up a whole load of whataboutery when it's a pretty clear case the ref has used a phrase he shouldn't have. 

46 minutes ago, hk blues said:

That makes sense.  

My main concern would be that a number of posts/posters here are simply making a blanket statement that using someone's colour as a way to identify them is wrong (racist?)  

Who has called the ref racist?

I see folk condemning the referee for his actions and others throwing up hypothetical situations as some sort of defence for him, but it's the ones condemning the ref you have worries about?

[hk blues]

2 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Who has called the ref racist?

I see folk condemning the referee for his actions and others throwing up hypothetical situations as some sort of defence for him, but it's the ones condemning the ref you have worries about?

You've got the wrong end of the stick.

I'm simply pointing out that I disagree with the posters who have said using a person's colour/race to identify them is automatically racist - no more than that.

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, true_rover said:

2 hours ago, hk blues said:

If he was the only white guy amongst a group of black guys would it be wrong to say the white guy?
Genuine question.

But the likelihood is that the description wouldn't be used, as Demba Ba pointed out in his complaints following Webo's red card.

I don't think so. 

If you go on Twitter there are loads of people talking about white people and particularly white women. Shannon Sharpe said on ESPN it was embarrassing for all black people that Nate Robinson got KO'd by Jake Paul. 

If you have been to Asia then you are used to being Farang or Gaijin. In South America it's Gringo or Guero.

[NotThePars]

You've got the wrong end of the stick.
I'm simply pointing out that I disagree with the posters who have said using a person's colour/race to identify them is automatically racist - no more than that.

I’m using the app on mobile which is a pain in the arse to navigate but mostly what I’m seeing are folk saying that it’s fine in context to use race as a descriptor but pointing out in this situation it’s a bit dodge at the very least given the numerous other ways you can identify someone that you can see that don’t have the superficial vaguely aggressive posture of saying “the black one” which translated into Romanian sounds near indistinguishable from a word with massive racist connotations in the lingua franca of the world.

Also to go to calling someone “the female one” I know numerous women that would find it weird to be called “the female one” when woman seems less, idk, biological? I can’t think of the word here. But also it’s usually easy to work out you’re talking about a woman by their name or using the variety of gendered pronouns that we have available to us. Not saying it’s sexist or whatever although I know people who would be suspicious of that but I don’t feel qualified to speak on behalf of women (or black people!) here just trying to work things out.

Are people saying it’s automatically racist?

[hk blues]

5 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I don't think so. 

If you go on Twitter there are loads of people talking about white people and particularly white women. Shannon Sharpe said on ESPN it was embarrassing for all black people that Nate Robinson got KO'd by Jake Paul. 

If you have been to Asia then you are used to being Farang or Gaijin. In South America it's Gringo or Guero.

Been to Asia - I've been living there for 15 years! 

In Hong Kong we're called Gweilo - white devil for want of a better expression.  Is it racist - well, it didn't offend me personally but that's not really the point.  Same in the Philippines where I am now - we're all Americanos.  Again, is it racist?  It's not intended to be offensive and again it doesn't offend me but others may have a different view.  I pretty much face racism most days here but It's water off a duck's back.

I'm missing your point though.

[hk blues]

6 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

I’m using the app on mobile which is a pain in the arse to navigate but mostly what I’m seeing are folk saying that it’s fine in context to use race as a descriptor but pointing out in this situation it’s a bit dodge at the very least given the numerous other ways you can identify someone that you can see that don’t have the superficial vaguely aggressive posture of saying “the black one” which translated into Romanian sounds near indistinguishable from a word with massive racist connotations in the lingua franca of the world.

Also to go to calling someone “the female one” I know numerous women that would find it weird to be called “the female one” when woman seems less, idk, biological? I can’t think of the word here. But also it’s usually easy to work out you’re talking about a woman by their name or using the variety of gendered pronouns that we have available to us. Not saying it’s sexist or whatever although I know people who would be suspicious of that but I don’t feel qualified to speak on behalf of women (or black people!) here just trying to work things out.

Are people saying it’s automatically racist?

 

I get the nuance.  Again, for me when someone's being identified by their colour/sex etc etc when it's the most obvious identifier I don't see a problem.  It's all about the context and intent.

Yes, people are saying it's automatically racist. Scroll back the last few pages and you'll see for yourself.

[welshbairn]

13 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I’m using the app on mobile which is a pain in the arse to navigate but mostly what I’m seeing are folk saying that it’s fine in context to use race as a descriptor but pointing out in this situation it’s a bit dodge at the very least given the numerous other ways you can identify someone that you can see that don’t have the superficial vaguely aggressive posture of saying “the black one” which translated into Romanian sounds near indistinguishable from a word with massive racist connotations in the lingua franca of the world.

While I think it's overstated thinking that everyone knows English swear words and slurs, not everyone was bilingual when Latin was the lingua franca either, if you put "black guy" into google translate to Romanian, it says "tip de culoare", so he was probably at it.

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

 "tip de culoare",

Man of colour. 

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Man of colour. 

Exactly. He had an easy alternative that I doubt would be taken as offensive. Unless google's talking shite which is a distinct possibility.

Edited December 9, 2020 by welshbairn