How good are/were Scotland?

[Bing.McCrosby]

5 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

Really? I'm just going by what I remember of the match threads on here.

Obviously it would be quite difficult to be as shambolic as under McLeish's second reign, but I didn't get the impression we were performing anything like as well as people had expected. That's not a criticism of Clarke; it isn't fair to expect someone to march in and be an overnight success.

Yeah fair enough, regarding the match thread.

I think under Clarke we have performed as the betting odds would have predicted. Beat the teams we should be beating and getting beat by the teams rated higher.

I think what people are looking for are better performances in the games against russia and belgium. Which came very early for him.

What I see is a more organised team even in those games, in spells. I could imagine us getting absolutely horsed in those games under Mcleish. 

For me the test is in the next capaign how we perform against the better teams. Ive seen enough to be hopefull.

[thisal]

On ‎19‎/‎06‎/‎2020 at 14:41, Northboy said:

Overall I'd agree with you although we did get a hell of a break at Anfield to qualify for Argentina 1978.

I

That game finished 2-0, but if it had finished a draw we would still have qualified unless Wales went to Czechoslovakia and won. They lost that game and the Czechs continued with an unbeaten run in competitive  home games that lasted from 1968 to 1986. It's hardly the robbery it's made out to be.

[BFTD]

9 hours ago, thisal said:

That game finished 2-0, but if it had finished a draw we would still have qualified unless Wales went to Czechoslovakia and won. They lost that game and the Czechs continued with an unbeaten run in competitive  home games that lasted from 1968 to 1986. It's hardly the robbery it's made out to be.

That's a nice fact. Hadn't heard that before.

All we need is to get invaded by the Russians too and silverware is a given.

[Marshmallo]

On 05/07/2020 at 17:44, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

And he's about what ten games into the job. Football fans are absolute jobbers in the vast majority of cases. The pish you hear is unreal.

This bit of the forum is even worse for it than other areas. Recently we've had people saying you can have a more rounded opinion of a player by not watching them, someone saying all midfielders are the same and now we have someone wanting us to win games we haven't played.

[Gordopolis]

This bit of the forum is even worse for it than other areas. Recently we've had people saying you can have a more rounded opinion of a player by not watching them

Very good. I clearly replied to clarify that I meant you get a more rounded view of a player by watching them *and* analysing stats etc, than just by watching alone.

But don't let that stop you.

[Bing.McCrosby]

2 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

This bit of the forum is even worse for it than other areas. Recently we've had people saying you can have a more rounded opinion of a player by not watching them, someone saying all midfielders are the same and now we have someone wanting us to win games we haven't played.

There even one guy who doesnt want players to play for Scotland If they are from or have played further north than glasgow.

[Scumjob]

Current squad is dire.

Aging keepers.

No right back to speak of.

A broad selection of bombscare centre halves.

A good left back and an injured left back.

A broad selection of headless chicken midfielders although if they could ever all play to full potential at the same time there might be something there.

A pitiful choice of strikers ranging from a Scottish championship player to an English premier league player who boasts a 20 million price tag and is an absolute tool.

[ewan14]

On 25/06/2020 at 01:14, Arch Stanton said:

Yeah but we conceded 2  v New Zealand which ultimately lead to us being papped out on GD.

Was that Jock Stein's fault tho' ?

( or Miller and the other one v. the USSR )

He chose the team against N.Z. but IIRC the Aston Villa centre back had recently won a European Cup winners medal

[ewan14]

On 21/06/2020 at 01:41, John Lambies Doos said:

Really is astonishing what we had at our disposal for world cup 82. Leaders everywhere.... But alas we shot ourselves in the foot again......

 

The Scotland squad for the 1982 World Cup was the most internationally adept the nation had ever assembled.

 

Ten European Cup winners' medals between them from the previous five years, three Uefa Cup winners and four European Super Cups. Within another two seasons, they'd have amassed another two European Cups, two more Uefa Cups, four Cup Winners' Cup winners and five more Super Cups.

 

Throw in a collective 63 domestic honours and 503 caps and a legendary European Cup-winning manager in Jock Stein.

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52969661

 

 

It has to be said the 1974 , and even the 1978 , squads were pretty good

In 1978 we were ####ed after the Willie Johnstone affair , but it MIGHT have been going wrong before then !

 

 

[ewan14]

On 19/06/2020 at 11:38, GordonD said:

 

Saddest thing about the final game (Yugoslavia) was that Ormond wanted to bring on Jimmy Johnstone for the last few minutes but the ref ignored didn't see the signals from the touchline, so Wee Jinky never got to play in a World Cup Finals game.

I did not know this , I thought the SFA had '' banned '' him. I am not sure the last few minutes would have been any good. Equally sad was the #### up for their goal !

 

[GordonD]

12 minutes ago, ewan14 said:

I did not know this , I thought the SFA had '' banned '' him. I am not sure the last few minutes would have been any good. Equally sad was the #### up for their goal !

 

Because of the rowing boat incident? Apparently not. And I was thinking more from Johnstone's point of view as having played in a World Cup rather than him being able to affect the result.

[ewan14]

2 hours ago, GordonD said:

Because of the rowing boat incident? Apparently not. And I was thinking more from Johnstone's point of view as having played in a World Cup rather than him being able to affect the result.

Partly , also sticking two fingers up to the dignitaries after beating england 2 - 0

Fair enough but even then I do not think a few minutes would have meant anything to him. Twenty minutes maybe , but Hutchison (?) did a fairly good job crossing to Jordan

Edited July 17, 2020 by ewan14

[ewan14]

On 20/06/2020 at 09:45, RandomGuy. said:

Bale - Left Welsh football at 10

Eriksen - Left Danish football at 16 

Haaland - Left Norwegian football at 18

Modric - Left Croatian football at 23

Modric the outlier, but I always wonder how much credit you should really give these countries for "producing" players who leave that country before theyve even matured.

Theres zero way Wales should be credited with developing Bale, as an example.

Maybe our issue is less about Scottish coaching, and more to do with Scottish players not finding their way to bigger clubs earlier and benefiting through that process (see Billy Gilmour as an example of a player following the path of the players mentioned above)

Sir Andy Murray - left Scottish tennis                                           whenever he did

 

[ewan14]

On 23/06/2020 at 14:29, Uncle Scan said:

1974 Unlucky

1978 Should have done better. Bad planning,loyal to  players out of form. Played our strongest team too late

1982 Again should have done better but too negative and gave teams too much respect

1986 Fecked up before we got there over Hansen. Dalglish spat the dummy and never went because of it. Weren't unlucky as we had a chance playing against 10 men for a full match and never looked like scoring

1990 No complaints just weren't good enough

1998 Same as above

I thought we suffered a real hangover from 78 and affected the 82 team where we had a really good squad just Rough not the required standard

Dalglish putting Liverpool before Scotland again ! #### !

We had a decent manager in 1982

and I do not see how we were too negative ! We attacked N.Z. , Brazil and USSR

Edited July 17, 2020 by ewan14

[ewan14]

On 22/06/2020 at 10:20, ahemps said:

I was watching 'I believe in miracles' on BT sport about Notts Forest winning the European cup. John McGovern captained that side but never even received a Scotland call-up. A double winning European cup captain not even making the squad???

Ken McNaught who won the European cup with Villa also didn't get a cap.

 

Graham Speirs wrote a very good wee article about John McGovern never getting capped !!

IIRC McNaught s Scottish Villa E. Cup winning central defensive partner ( Evans ? ) was capped against N.Z. and it was not a success !

 

[BFTD]

Was it Alan Brazil or Andy Gray who was asked to go to the World Cup in 1978 and turned it down because their club manager wanted them fit and rested for the domestic season?

Mind-boggling stuff. Like turning down a night with Monica Bellucci in case the office manager notices your saddlebags in the morning.

[Uncle Scan]

20 hours ago, ewan14 said:

Dalglish putting Liverpool before Scotland again ! #### !

We had a decent manager in 1982

and I do not see how we were too negative ! We attacked N.Z. , Brazil and USSR

We never attacked  Brazil

4-5-1 we played

Sat back once in front against USSR then lost 2 goals in quick succession in the second half

[craigkillie]

We never attacked  Brazil
4-5-1 we played
Sat back once in front against USSR then lost 2 goals in quick succession in the second half

I'm just watching back that USSR game and you are talking nonsense. We were completely on top for the first hour and created numerous chances even after we were 1-0 up. And their goals weren't in quick succession - they equalised after an hour and their second goal wasn't until the 84th minute.

[BFTD]

59 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I'm just watching back that USSR game and you are talking nonsense. We were completely on top for the first hour and created numerous chances even after we were 1-0 up. And their goals weren't in quick succession - they equalised after an hour and their second goal wasn't until the 84th minute.

Just saw that game a few weeks ago, and I have to agree. We were full of fire and invention in the first half, and what really did for us was that we didn't add enough to the scoreline when we had the upper hand. We tired in the last half-hour and never looked like scoring again until the Soviets took the lead, who hadn't created much other than the two goals.

The most depressing part was that, with the game at 1-1 and needing victory to progress, we weren't creating anything either. We looked punched out until going behind belatedly woke us up. I can't help but feel I saw that before, back when we were half-decent; the inability to finish opponents off.

Edit: forgot to mention that WGS was on fire in that game. Just think what he could've accomplished in the game if he'd been born of stronger generic stock.

Edited July 19, 2020 by BigFatTabbyDave

[ewan14]

22 hours ago, Uncle Scan said:

We never attacked  Brazil

4-5-1 we played

Sat back once in front against USSR then lost 2 goals in quick succession in the second half

The goal we scored against Brazil was not a counter attack , or such like !           It was very well worked !

Once again 4 - 5 - 1 does not need to be negative

3 hours ago, craigkillie said:

22 hours ago, Uncle Scan said:

We never attacked  Brazil
4-5-1 we played
Sat back once in front against USSR then lost 2 goals in quick succession in the second half

I'm just watching back that USSR game and you are talking nonsense. We were completely on top for the first hour and created numerous chances even after we were 1-0 up. And their goals weren't in quick succession - they equalised after an hour and their second goal wasn't until the 84th minute.

Seconded !