Sportscene watch

[Arch Stanton]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

Very professional!  I scrolled back a couple of times to watch it again and it was Rogers' glaikit look followed by his faux outrage that had me laughing.

Still, it answers the question that I posed on Wed's match thread of, "Where are your goals going to come from?".

Well, since we have the 4th best defensive record in the league, one of those every game will certainly help.

However, seriously, 15 goals in 19 games is pathetic. Maybe Goody has found a striker in the Irish league or a Goncalves-like bolt from the blue.

[djchapsticks]

1 hour ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

That's because Stendel had them playing a high line and nae c**t really knew what they were meant to be doing to cover one another. At Livi Halkett was a rock in our defence and Kept Gallagher from losing his head, he was our best player. Suppose it comes down to having a decent manager and players that form good understandings too.

Agree fully. Halkett at Livi had me lamenting the fact that we passed him up. We had apparently all but sealed his services and backed out for whatever reason. 

[djchapsticks]

1 hour ago, PauloPerth said:

Was thinking similar.  They're upto 5th with 5 league wins on the spin. 

Look at the three goalscorers today who seem to be standing out for them this season; Mullin, Guthrie and Robinson.  A centre back released by Walsall, and two journeymen in their late 20's who have spent a fair bit of their recent careers below the Premiership.  

Its frustrating as f**k that we'd sign those same players and they'd turn out to be dogshite for us!

 

Yeah. Guys who at the point they sign like Lithgow, Dykes, Taylor-Sinclair, Sibbald are all guys that have flattered to deceive and you would very much shrug your shoulders at, Livi seem to get the absolute best out of them.

I mean they aren't infallible, for every Lyndon Dykes or Declan Gallagher there's a Steven Saunders or Greg Wylde but even then, they must have at least a 50% success rate on those types of players... journeymen who haven't quite got there or habitual lower league players who have never had a shot. 

I'm convinced they'd even turn Lee Erwin into a success somehow. 

[Coventry Saint]

5 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Yeah. Guys who at the point they sign like Lithgow, Dykes, Taylor-Sinclair, Sibbald are all guys that have flattered to deceive and you would very much shrug your shoulders at, Livi seem to get the absolute best out of them.

I mean they aren't infallible, for every Lyndon Dykes or Declan Gallagher there's a Steven Saunders or Greg Wylde but even then, they must have at least a 50% success rate on those types of players... journeymen who haven't quite got there or habitual lower league players who have never had a shot. 

I'm convinced they'd even turn Lee Erwin into a success somehow. 

Livi are the team that I'm most afraid will sign our cast-offs and turn them into world beaters.

Erwin, as you mention, or perhaps Morias...

[Lex]

Livi are just a really well run team. Infact I’d say they were the best run team in Scotland and have been for years. They consistently punch above their weight on and off the park.

Size wise I’d say they were smaller than the likes of Morton, Falkirk, Patrick Thistle and QOTS. Compare their recent history to those four shambles and it’s night and day.

Tbh I think it’s Martindale who’s been running the show since they were in League 1 with and seen off several managers since. Now he’s got the reigns I fear he’s the Pablo Escobar of Scottish Football. A mad drug dealing genius who’s surely going to end up dead on a rooftop. Or managing in the EPL.

I wish we’d drawn Hibs or Saintees in the semi now FFS.

[true_rover]

Aren’t the viewing figures in Scotland higher for MOTD than they are for sportscene these days?

Get this pish shifted.

The other difference this week is that the showing on BBC 1 isn't a repeat as it usually is. The first showing on the BBC Scotland channel wasn't shown as they were broadcasting Dundee v Hearts instead.

Also, anyone that bothered could either change to a different regional channel on Sky or watch on iPlayer.

[LIVIFOREVER]

10 hours ago, Lex said:

Livi are just a really well run team. Infact I’d say they were the best run team in Scotland and have been for years. They consistently punch above their weight on and off the park.

Size wise I’d say they were smaller than the likes of Morton, Falkirk, Patrick Thistle and QOTS. Compare their recent history to those four shambles and it’s night and day.

Tbh I think it’s Martindale who’s been running the show since they were in League 1 with and seen off several managers since. Now he’s got the reigns I fear he’s the Pablo Escobar of Scottish Football. A mad drug dealing genius who’s surely going to end up dead on a rooftop. Or managing in the EPL.

I wish we’d drawn Hibs or Saintees in the semi now FFS.
 

Prob on par with Accies, which shows in football at least, size doesn't matter.

[DiegoDiego]

Wait a minute, did the guy commentating on Killie vs St. Mirren say "There's not much dubiety in that"? What in Jesus f**k is wrong with saying doubt?

[ATLIS]

On 02/01/2021 at 23:48, PauloPerth said:

Was thinking similar.  They're upto 5th with 5 league wins on the spin. 

Look at the three goalscorers today who seem to be standing out for them this season; Mullin, Guthrie and Robinson.  A centre back released by Walsall, and two journeymen in their late 20's who have spent a fair bit of their recent careers below the Premiership.  

Its frustrating as f**k that we'd sign those same players and they'd turn out to be dogshite for us!

 

A large part of the success is that Martindale has been in charge of recruitment since becoming assistant manager, so League 1 days. 
 

The entire mindset from that season onwards was stats driven recruitment. Rather than opinions on guys, we looked at hard evidence of what they do, without adding in a bias on them.

 

I think at Airdrie Lithgow was profiled as a bottom 6 premiership defender, and it showed because he’s been brilliant for us. 
 

Guthrie as well, stats wise was similar to Halkett in terms of profile, and it’s continued on since he signed. 
 

I think the club actually uses a database of players, as it’s been referenced a few times. We profile players we’re going to lose and find like for like replacements at an affordable level. 
 

Dykes was a huge one and in the space of a year it paid off to the tune of £2m. In that time we’d brought in Fitzwater from West Brom, Forrest from Ayr and Mullin back from Ross County. Max Stryjek in goals is another that just filled a gap perfectly. 
 

Bit of a Moneyball approach but it works interestingly enough 

[PauloPerth]

5 hours ago, ATLIS said:

A large part of the success is that Martindale has been in charge of recruitment since becoming assistant manager, so League 1 days. 
 

The entire mindset from that season onwards was stats driven recruitment. Rather than opinions on guys, we looked at hard evidence of what they do, without adding in a bias on them.

 

I think at Airdrie Lithgow was profiled as a bottom 6 premiership defender, and it showed because he’s been brilliant for us. 
 

Guthrie as well, stats wise was similar to Halkett in terms of profile, and it’s continued on since he signed. 
 

I think the club actually uses a database of players, as it’s been referenced a few times. We profile players we’re going to lose and find like for like replacements at an affordable level. 
 

Dykes was a huge one and in the space of a year it paid off to the tune of £2m. In that time we’d brought in Fitzwater from West Brom, Forrest from Ayr and Mullin back from Ross County. Max Stryjek in goals is another that just filled a gap perfectly. 
 

Bit of a Moneyball approach but it works interestingly enough 

Interesting to hear.  Never really thought the moneyball approach would work in football, as there's far too many variables.

Obviously a success for yourselves, but there's far more to it surely.  How often even at the very top level does a player have incredible stats then move to another club and it just fail to work out?  Doesn't settle, doesn't get on with the manager, doesn't fit into a slightly different system, can't handle the pressure of playing at a higher level etc

I would think every player must have their level as well.  For example, a player with great stats at league two might be able to produce similar at league one/ championship.. but it doesn't mean they can they do it at Premiership/ England/ champions league etc

In terms of getting decent prospects in it's obviously working at Livi.  But are there many duds signed in amongst the successes?

[Cptn Hooch]

Interesting to hear.  Never really thought the moneyball approach would work in football, as there's far too many variables.
Obviously a success for yourselves, but there's far more to it surely.  How often even at the very top level does a player have incredible stats then move to another club and it just fail to work out?  Doesn't settle, doesn't get on with the manager, doesn't fit into a slightly different system, can't handle the pressure of playing at a higher level etc
I would think every player must have their level as well.  For example, a player with great stats at league two might be able to produce similar at league one/ championship.. but it doesn't mean they can they do it at Premiership/ England/ champions league etc
In terms of getting decent prospects in it's obviously working at Livi.  But are there many duds signed in amongst the successes?

We've had relatively few duds (James Brown, Ibra Savane, Anthony Stokes, Cece Pepe, Gregg Wylde etc) and a few that were decent players but didn't work out at Livi for one reason or another (Aymen Souda, Dolly Menga, Dylan Mackin, Nicky Cadden) however the recruitment has been, in general, very good. Any outgoing player has been replaced by an equal or better player other than Lyndon Dykes who left a fair sized hole that we have patched with reasonable success but haven't quite managed to fill completely yet.

[crispy]

1 hour ago, PauloPerth said:

Interesting to hear.  Never really thought the moneyball approach would work in football, as there's far too many variables.

Obviously a success for yourselves, but there's far more to it surely.  How often even at the very top level does a player have incredible stats then move to another club and it just fail to work out?  Doesn't settle, doesn't get on with the manager, doesn't fit into a slightly different system, can't handle the pressure of playing at a higher level etc

I would think every player must have their level as well.  For example, a player with great stats at league two might be able to produce similar at league one/ championship.. but it doesn't mean they can they do it at Premiership/ England/ champions league etc

In terms of getting decent prospects in it's obviously working at Livi.  But are there many duds signed in amongst the successes?

There absolutely have been duds in there over the years. I think what's been evident for a while is that we are prolific in taking chances on guys and as soon as it's clear they won't cut it we move them on so they aren't costly gambles. I once saw it described (on here in league predictor i think) as a 'Poundland recruitment policy' and that's absolutely true for reasons discussed by all above. E.g. I think it was a great shout to give Stokes a try. Funnily, your very own James Brown was with us for a short period aswell before he returned to parent club. 

There are numerous quotes over the years aswell where the management team have said "we've been watching [X player] for 18 months and desperate to get him in". It's the stability and longterm approach irrespective of who is in the dugout that has seen us do well i think. There's no doubt that Martindale has been a big part of that so i hope things don't flop and he moves on!

The jury is out on Jet currently and I wouldn't be surprised to see him move on (question marks over mobility/fitness). As above, i think we've brought guys in and if it's not working then we don't hang about and move them on.

[DukDukGoose]

56 minutes ago, crispy said:

There absolutely have been duds in there over the years. I think what's been evident for a while is that we are prolific in taking chances on guys and as soon as it's clear they won't cut it we move them on so they aren't costly gambles. I once saw it described (on here in league predictor i think) as a 'Poundland recruitment policy' and that's absolutely true for reasons discussed by all above. E.g. I think it was a great shout to give Stokes a try. Funnily, your very own James Brown was with us for a short period aswell before he returned to parent club. 

There are numerous quotes over the years aswell where the management team have said "we've been watching [X player] for 18 months and desperate to get him in". It's the stability and longterm approach irrespective of who is in the dugout that has seen us do well i think. There's no doubt that Martindale has been a big part of that so i hope things don't flop and he moves on!

The jury is out on Jet currently and I wouldn't be surprised to see him move on (question marks over mobility/fitness). As above, i think we've brought guys in and if it's not working then we don't hang about and move them on.

I agree with most of what you say but I'm sorry to tell you that Stokes was never going to work out.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Our current batch of strikers shows it doesn't always work, and the fact we're relying on an attacking midfielder more than any of them, playing as a striker. 

 

Lars out on loan at Raith looks  promising but may be next season before he gets the chance to prove himself.  Poplatnik has been the most successful out of the lot, but has had a stop start season, also took a while to get fit and adjusted to Scottish football. Stokes was a complete failure, unfit and poor attitude, fucking off without even kicking a ball for the first team. Sal is out on loan at Partick and has barely kicked a ball too, and is now injured, isn't looking promising for him being good enough at this level. JET doesn't look like he can fit in with how we play, isn't mobile enough to press defenders, but at least scored a goal recently, so there may be a place for him as a sub, for when we're needing something a bit different.

And we've just signed Reilly, another striker, his profile looks very promising though, energy and pace to press defenders.

 

Tiffoney and Hamilton are two who haven't really shown they can cut it at this level too, Hammy has been put out on loan for a few seasons now, and does well in lower league teams, he is looking at last chance saloon next season to cut it in the top flight though, we surely have to give him his make or break chance in the Premiership.

We're fortunate to have so many players scoring goals, 17 different goal scorers this season i think, so aren't really reliant on strikers for getting goals, mainly just need them to press defenders, so they don't get the time to bring the ball out from the back and set up attacks, and also the pace to give us an out ball, then bring in our attacking mids.

[craigkillie]

4 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

I agree with most of what you say but I'm sorry to tell you that Stokes was never going to work out.

Based on what? He did OK in this league with Hibs as recently as two years ago, and had been playing fairly regularly at a variety of levels in between. Attitude problems meant it was always going to be a gamble, but he's always had those problems and was still able to do well at this level. I'd have put it at about a 25% chance of success, but it wasn't like there was no chance of him doing well.

[BukyOHare]

On 03/01/2021 at 01:27, Lex said:

Livi are just a really well run team. Infact I’d say they were the best run team in Scotland and have been for years. They consistently punch above their weight on and off the park.

Size wise I’d say they were smaller than the likes of Morton, Falkirk, Patrick Thistle and QOTS. Compare their recent history to those four shambles and it’s night and day.

Tbh I think it’s Martindale who’s been running the show since they were in League 1 with and seen off several managers since. Now he’s got the reigns I fear he’s the Pablo Escobar of Scottish Football. A mad drug dealing genius who’s surely going to end up dead on a rooftop. Or managing in the EPL.

I wish we’d drawn Hibs or Saintees in the semi now FFS.
 

No, no, no. Again no. 

They deserve huge praise for what they do on the park but in the boardroom they are, or certainly were, far from the model of how a club should be run. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by BukyOHare

[DukDukGoose]

Just now, craigkillie said:

Based on what? He did OK in this league with Hibs as recently as two years ago, and had been playing fairly regularly at a variety of levels in between. Attitude problems meant it was always going to be a gamble, but he's always had those problems and was still able to do well at this level. I'd have put it at about a 25% chance of success, but it wasn't like there was no chance of him doing well.

Based on the attitude problems alone. Livi have a great team spirit. Everyone works for each other. Stokes was never going to be onboard with any of that.

[craigkillie]

1 minute ago, Merkland Red said:

Based on the attitude problems alone. Livi have a great team spirit. Everyone works for each other. Stokes was never going to be onboard with any of that.

They've signed players with bigger issues in the past and got a song out of them.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Oh and goalkeepers are a bit hit and miss too, Stewart just isn't good enough and is out on loan to Hearts, prob wont be here next season. McCrorie fills me with dread, doesn't look ready for this level, but Stryjek  looks good, took us a while to give him his chance though, as Holt persisted with McCrorie, much to our fans annoyance.

[DukDukGoose]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

They've signed players with bigger issues in the past and got a song out of them.

Such as?

Please don't say someone who did jail time as that has nothing to do with this.

Edit: They signed Gregg Wylde who was another shining example of why horrendous attitudes don't mesh with their core squad.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Merkland Red