Monkey Tennis Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Missing out narrowly doesn't by definition involve glory. What a stupid suggestion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Folk can put any epithet in front of 'failure' that they want, but it's still failure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Scary Bear said: In that last WC campaign we drew at home with Lithuania, got humped away in Slovakia and England, then turned the campaign round with a few wins, then drew with Slovenia away and missed out. It didn’t seem that glorious too me, but it was close and the team was decent enough to watch towards the end. Being a Scotland fan is debating shades of failure. Maybe we could come up with a scale from Glorious to Abject? The home draw with English certainly qualified for gloriously failing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, Binos said: The home draw with English certainly qualified for gloriously failing True, but it had looked like petering our for a narrow and uneventful away win anyway before those two free kicks. The late equaliser was a kick in the nads though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Binos said: We would if we'd held on to our lead in Slovenia in the final group game Before we stopped playing and chucked it away Using our substitutes might have helped 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 18 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said: By 'honking', I was referring to how awful Greece were to watch. They obviously had decent players, albeit nowhere near good enough to win the tournament without shitfesting. Absolutely wanted them to win by the time they got going, however. The games were eyerape, but it was quality to see the press and commentary teams whining about the "anti-football" team getting the best of their favourites. Reminded me of Wimbledon during the Eighties, who were utterly detested for managing to hack (literally) the tactics being used by the big boys. It was fuckin beautiful to watch Ronaldo crying in the final. He's been a p***k since day one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusTheBull Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 22 hours ago, No_Problemo said: Possibly McTominay, Cooper, Tierney as our back three. Cooper gives a bit of experience over McKenna which is important too. McKenna has 16 caps and has captained Scotland. He also has double figure appearances in European competitions. Cooper has 4 caps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 21 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: It wasn't exactly a typical feature in bygone years either. Attaching glory to our failures is self serving and has only rarely been fitting. It is part of a "Wha's like us?" narrative that is mythical, based on a daft notion of exceptionalism, and ultimately does us no favours. Hm, got me wondering about genuine glorious failures. First of all, there are no glorious failures against weaker teams. The 08 campaign itself wasn't a glorious failure, because of that bloody Georgia game, but the Italy match was. We played with courage and energy and deserved much more from the game than we got. And it's hard to be churlish when we came so close in a group with both World Cup finalists and a quarter-finalist. The 99 play-off v England counts, because the performance at Wembley was pretty magnificent. You play that match 100 times and we win at least half of them by at least two goals. Euro 92 counts, because we did enough against Germany to deserve a draw and that could have been enough to make the semi-finals. Germany had one shot on target and scored twice. The last 8 of a competition is the furthest we've ever been anyway so it was already pretty glorious. The free-kicks against England in the 2-2 draw were bloody glorious, but the goal we conceded was shite. I can't regard that as glorious, it ended up just bollocks. I can think of others further back, but not many contenders more recently. 19 hours ago, Scary Bear said: Being a Scotland fan is debating shades of failure. Maybe we could come up with a scale from Glorious to Abject? In fairness, unless you support a team that's actually won something, it's all shades of failure. But I'm still going to regard 5 world cup qualifications in a row as a success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GordonS said: Hm, got me wondering about genuine glorious failures. First of all, there are no glorious failures against weaker teams. The 08 campaign itself wasn't a glorious failure, because of that bloody Georgia game, but the Italy match was. We played with courage and energy and deserved much more from the game than we got. And it's hard to be churlish when we came so close in a group with both World Cup finalists and a quarter-finalist. The 99 play-off v England counts, because the performance at Wembley was pretty magnificent. You play that match 100 times and we win at least half of them by at least two goals. Euro 92 counts, because we did enough against Germany to deserve a draw and that could have been enough to make the semi-finals. Germany had one shot on target and scored twice. The last 8 of a competition is the furthest we've ever been anyway so it was already pretty glorious. The free-kicks against England in the 2-2 draw were bloody glorious, but the goal we conceded was shite. I can't regard that as glorious, it ended up just bollocks. I can think of others further back, but not many contenders more recently. Yes I'd pretty much agree with those. The definitive one, which I think framed the myth, was of course in beating the Dutch in 1978. I think though that we're guilty of thinking there's something special about us. How many times do you see or read "It would be so Scotland to..."? It's closely related to the Strachan nonsense of attributing failure to luck. Every nation could point to similar episodes in their footballing history. Edited October 11, 2020 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Because of the recent Covid issues, FIFA are apparently considering taking away the fact that clubs have to give up their players to their countries, or accept possible sanctions with players not being available for their next club match. If this comes to pass we can give up any hope of having Celtic players in the squad for the Serbia match. I realise that on recent Scotland form that is no real loss, but it would certainly be a blow not to get Leigh Griffiths back in, providing his physical and mental fitness continue to improve. It may also mean some of the English Premier League clubs use that to stop players from joining the squad. On the plus side, hopefully Ryan Jack would be kept at Ibrox. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 On 10/10/2020 at 12:05, craigkillie said: Not every bad performance is a "shitebag display", we just weren't very good which is what sometimes happens when you are a team performing several levels above the sum of your parts for the majority of a campaign. A very similar Georgia team had put in a credible performance away to Italy four days earlier and also took points off Ukraine a month earlier. Nah sorry brother that Georgia result was Scotland shiting the bed big time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiviLion Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 5 hours ago, AngusTheBull said: McKenna has 16 caps and has captained Scotland. He also has double figure appearances in European competitions. Cooper has 4 caps. Liam Cooper is captain of a team in the Premier League and has played over (or very close to) 300 professional games. Scott McKenna isn't and hasn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 27 minutes ago, LiviLion said: Liam Cooper is captain of a team in the Premier League and has played over (or very close to) 300 professional games. Scott McKenna isn't and hasn't. McKenna has still played about 150 games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Yes I'd pretty much agree with those. The definitive one, which I think framed the myth, was of course in beating the Dutch in 1978. I think though that we're guilty of thinking there's something special about us. How many times do you see or read "It would be so Scotland to..."? It's closely related to the Strachan nonsense of attributing failure to luck. Every nation could point to similar episodes in their footballing history. The Dutch can point to 3 World Cup finals! One thing that does fit the "it would be so Scottish if" is beating good teams and losing to weaker ones. But we're not really good enough to do that any more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 It's conveniently forgotten that Ferguson's goal against Italy was miles offside. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Stellaboz said: It's conveniently forgotten that Ferguson's goal against Italy was miles offside. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart87 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 It's conveniently forgotten that Ferguson's goal against Italy was miles offside. You’re right that it was offside but it was very tight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 27 minutes ago, Stellaboz said: It's conveniently forgotten that Ferguson's goal against Italy was miles offside. And Italy had a perfectly good goal disallowed too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 1 hour ago, kingjoey said: Because of the recent Covid issues, FIFA are apparently considering taking away the fact that clubs have to give up their players to their countries, or accept possible sanctions with players not being available for their next club match. If this comes to pass we can give up any hope of having Celtic players in the squad for the Serbia match. I realise that on recent Scotland form that is no real loss, but it would certainly be a blow not to get Leigh Griffiths back in, providing his physical and mental fitness continue to improve. It may also mean some of the English Premier League clubs use that to stop players from joining the squad. On the plus side, hopefully Ryan Jack would be kept at Ibrox. If that comes to pass not one single club will release one single player Where did you hear this The daily record website 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 31 minutes ago, GordonS said: One thing that does fit the "it would be so Scottish if" is beating good teams and losing to weaker ones. But we're not really good enough to do that any more. Again, I think that idea was very much crystalised by events in Argentina in 1978. Obviously that Euro 2008 campaign also provided examples. Once more though, I'd imagine most middling sides can point to famous, unlikely victories, fitting alongside dismal defeats to weaker nations. You're also right in saying it's something that's stopped happening. We're pretty guilty of writing off games against the big sides with our 'free hit' nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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