Scottish Infrastructure

[LongTimeLurker]

The excessive power concentration at Holyrood and Westminster is part of it no question, but there's also a vocal lobby that benefit economically from the status quo way of doing things. For example, the inhabited outer northern islands of Orkney all have airports and other types of service provision like the post office and schools that could be eliminated or rationalised if a series of short causeways, tunnels and bridges put Kirkwall within easy driving distance.  

[gannonball]

Has anyone been on that Colintraive to Bute ferry? Takes less than 5 minutes. Mental there has been a better solution over the years.

[LongTimeLurker]

Lerwick to Bressay is another truly laughable one given how close they are in the industrial area at the north end of the town. For some reason the Scottish media don't seem to be able to get their head around road tunnels under bodies of water despite the obvious example of the Clyde Tunnel in Glasgow from the early 60s. When the SNP mentioned doing Gourock to Dunoon with a fixed link not long back (something that should have happened decades ago) newspaper articles start wittering on about the new Queensferry Crossing with the implication being that the cost would have to be in low nine figures when the Faroese are currently able to do a two lane undersea road tunnel at £10 million or so per km.

Edited November 17, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[Detournement]

4 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Lerwick to Bressay is another truly laughable one given how close they are in the industrial area at the north end of the town. For some reason the Scottish media don't seem to be able to get their head around road tunnels under bodies of water despite the obvious example of the Clyde Tunnel in Glasgow from the early 60s. When the SNP mentioned doing Gourock to Dunoon with a fixed link not long back (something that should have happened decades ago) newspaper articles start wittering on about the new Queensferry Crossing with the implication being that the cost would have to be in low nine figures when the Faroese are currently able to do a two lane undersea road tunnel at £10 million or so per km.

The Faroes probably don't have a professional class who see every infrastructure project as opportunity for self enrichment. 

If £100 million is the real cost of building the tunnel under UK practices you can add on another £500 million to pay off managers, consultants and lawyers .

[Newbornbairn]

5 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Lerwick to Bressay is another truly laughable one given how close they are in the industrial area at the north end of the town. For some reason the Scottish media don't seem to be able to get their head around road tunnels under bodies of water despite the obvious example of the Clyde Tunnel in Glasgow from the early 60s. When the SNP mentioned doing Gourock to Dunoon with a fixed link not long back (something that should have happened decades ago) newspaper articles start wittering on about the new Queensferry Crossing with the implication being that the cost would have to be in low nine figures when the Faroese are currently able to do a two lane undersea road tunnel at £10 million or so per km.

A9 dualling is £3bn for 129km, or £23.25m per km.  https://www.transport.gov.scot/projects/a9-dualling-perth-to-inverness/programme-details/

Edited November 17, 2021 by Newbornbairn
add link

[Newbornbairn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59368707

 

That's your Boris Bridge from Scotland to NI in the sea 

[parsforlife]

1 minute ago, Newbornbairn said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59368707

 

That's your Boris Bridge from Scotland to NI in the sea 

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

48 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59368707

 

That's your Boris Bridge from Scotland to NI in the sea 

Worst idea ever. 

[LongTimeLurker]

Having a 1000 ft deep trench in the way that has been used as a dump for munitions and radioactive waste does complicate matters. It would be unfortunate though if other potential fixed link projects that do not face the same sort of engineering challenges and would have considerably lower price tags are now routinely dismissed as fantasy because Boris highlighted one that is unusually difficult and expensive to achieve when he probably wasn't even serious about ever doing it in the first place.

Edited November 22, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[effeffsee_the2nd]

11 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Having a 1000 ft deep trench in the way that has been used as a dump for munitions and radioactive waste does complicate matters. It would be unfortunate though if other potential fixed link projects that do not face the same sort of engineering challenges and would have considerably lower price tags are now routinely dismissed as fantasy because Boris highlighted one that is unusually difficult and expensive to achieve when he probably wasn't even serious about ever doing it in the first place.

Engineering wise it's very doable even at a hefty price tag. cost benefit wise it's no where near it. you would need a motorway along the solway coast to join up with the M6 and another up to glasgow taking the M77 all the way down. it wouldn't see the trafic. most of the Ireland-Britain  freight traffic is going Dublin-Wales-England , even with a fixed link and upgrades to the road network that's still a long way for a for a shortcut 

[Michael W]

On 17/11/2021 at 10:41, Detournement said:

The Faroes probably don't have a professional class who see every infrastructure project as opportunity for self enrichment. 

If £100 million is the real cost of building the tunnel under UK practices you can add on another £500 million to pay off managers, consultants and lawyers .

Yeah, but just look at all the "added value" they brought!

21 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Having a 1000 ft deep trench in the way that has been used as a dump for munitions and radioactive waste does complicate matters. It would be unfortunate though if other potential fixed link projects that do not face the same sort of engineering challenges and would have considerably lower price tags are now routinely dismissed as fantasy because Boris highlighted one that is unusually difficult and expensive to achieve when he probably wasn't even serious about ever doing it in the first place.

Much as this was never being built, Johnson is a serial fantasist so there will be something else worth a few million in consultancy feasibility studies that will be mooted and then booted a couple of years down the line. He's never gotten over his laughable airport proposal  

[LongTimeLurker]

34 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

Engineering wise it's very doable even at a hefty price tag. cost benefit wise it's no where near it. you would need a motorway along the solway coast to join up with the M6 and another up to glasgow taking the M77 all the way down. it wouldn't see the trafic. most of the Ireland-Britain  freight traffic is going Dublin-Wales-England , even with a fixed link and upgrades to the road network that's still a long way for a for a shortcut 

GB and NI having separate incompatible rail gauges doesn't help either before we get into the Beeching era cuts having done away with the Stranraer to Dumfries line.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

On 14/11/2021 at 12:56, LongTimeLurker said:

The excessive power concentration at Holyrood and Westminster is part of it no question, but there's also a vocal lobby that benefit economically from the status quo way of doing things. For example, the inhabited outer northern islands of Orkney all have airports and other types of service provision like the post office and schools that could be eliminated or rationalised if a series of short causeways, tunnels and bridges put Kirkwall within easy driving distance.  

And to be honest if these people really wanted speedy transport connections they wouldn't live on a tiny island.

 

[TheScarf]

Yet another fatal accident at the Munlochy junction on the A9 just north of Inverness on Friday.  All traffic south had to go via Beauly which meant a 90 minute journey from Dingwall to Inverness.  It really needs a flyover but I don't think the traffic volume would be enough for it to justify one unfortunately.

[Detournement]

I agree with LTL here. 

Tunnels between the islands should be considered basic infrastructure if the cost can be done at Faroese levels. 

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Yet another fatal accident at the Munlochy junction on the A9 just north of Inverness on Friday.  All traffic south had to go via Beauly which meant a 90 minute journey from Dingwall to Inverness.  It really needs a flyover but I don't think the traffic volume would be enough for it to justify one unfortunately.

86 year old involved. I don't get what's so dangerous about it tbh.

[RiG]

7 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Yet another fatal accident at the Munlochy junction on the A9 just north of Inverness on Friday.  All traffic south had to go via Beauly which meant a 90 minute journey from Dingwall to Inverness.  It really needs a flyover but I don't think the traffic volume would be enough for it to justify one unfortunately.

 

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

86 year old involved. I don't get what's so dangerous about it tbh.

People turning across the A9 misjudging the speed of oncoming traffic I suspect.

As a short term measure they are installing street lighting to improve visibility but they are looking at a whole raft of options like reducing the speed limits, longer turning lane, roundabout, traffic lights and so on.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

And to be honest if these people really wanted speedy transport connections they wouldn't live on a tiny island.

So keep pouring vast subsidies into ferries and airstrips so a population that over time tends to be increasingly skewed towards new age hippy types can merrily commune with nature rather than spending similar sums on fixed links to reverse decades long trends in depopulation amongst families that have lived in the area for centuries and would be a lot more likely to hang around and be economicaly productive if they could have a more normal 21st century lifestyle? Back in the 1950s the mentality wasn't if they wanted running water and electricity they would live on the mainland, but somewhere along the line the Faroese kept going on pushing the envelope on infrastructure rollout and Scotland/UK stopped.

[vikingTON]

Complains of 'vast subsidies' being poured into ferry links. 

Wants fixed connections to aid the *not at all subsidised* private car owners who fancy an Inverness-Orkney commute. 

[LongTimeLurker]

^^^would normally just ignore this pathetic identity politics obsessed bigot but there are already several concrete examples readily available in a Scottish context of how fixed links can transform remote island communities and reverse depopulation trends. Check out what causeways and bridges did for Eriskay, Scalpay and Vatersay in the Western Isles and Trondra and Burra in Shetland, for example. The Faroese have shown how there is scope to be more ambitious than that if the centre of infrastructure decision making can be brought closer to people's lives than happens in either a Scottish or UK context. If the decision making was happening from Copenhagen odds on there would be no roundabout under the sea.