St Mirren v Aberdeen Sat 5th Dec.

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

Not much Hoban can do... apart from not moving his arm towards the ball and block it .

I know these things happen in a split second but I don't know what he was trying to do there.

He was very close to the ball, I'll give him that but the ball was moving towards goal until he moved his arm and blocked it.
 

Those are some lighning reflexes 

[FTOF]

8 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Those are some lighning reflexes 

It's amazing what you can achieve when you act instinctively.

[BigBo10]

Ferguson was lucky not to be sent off when he got booked for the first time.

[Munoz]

9 minutes ago, BigBo10 said:

Ferguson was lucky not to be sent off when he got booked for the first time.

And before he got his 2nd booking, he committed about 3 or 4 fouls. 

[Shuggie_Murray7]

Madness that folk, having seen the replays, still think the penalty was harsh. It’s as blatant a penalty as you‘ll see.

On the Ferguson front, the second yellow shouldn’t have been a booking, however it’s clearly given for the accumulation of all of the fouls he committed, at least 4, between his first yellow and the sending off. A shit sending off, but he was lucky to still be on the park by that point.

[flyingscot]

Yeah, the handball was an easy decision for the referee and correct call. There isn't much distance between him and the ball being hit but he definitely sticks his hand out. I even think refs would give that under the old rules too. 

Ferguson was walking a tight rope before the 2nd yellow. His 2nd booking in isolation is harsh and you could argue it, but over the piece he deserved to walk. The first yellow is a real bad challenge, and an unnecessary one. 

[Dons_1988]

I must admit I couldn't get too worked up about either decision.

I think Hoban is unfortunate, he's not meant it but it's a definite pen.

Ferguson's is debatable but I just think he's naive and had no need to get involved, and I can see how Madden might see it as stopping a promising attack cynically. I can only guess he was told at HT to be careful and he's got involved like 2 minutes later.

[big al]

Ferguson gives away far too many fouls, many of them needless, week in week out.

He still has a long way to go if he’s going to be a top player. Watched a few of the Scotland U21games and he is often outshone by his opponents, especially technically. Those games are lessons for him about what he needs to improve.

[buddie06smfc]

I think the Ferguson 2nd yellow is as blatant as they come and Logan should shoulder most of the blame for the terrible 5-yard pass he get wrong. It’s smart play by Obika and naive by Ferguson. It’s in a nothing area of the pitch usually but Obika was running straight at the centre halves following his turn. Considine only gets to the ball first because of Ferguson’s foul. Ferguson should also be getting in tight for his ridiculous foul within the first 5 minutes of the game. He only has himself & Logan to blame, nobody else.

 

[Irrational Behaviour]

Ferguson is brilliant at his role in terms of cynical fouls. Wouldn't want that to change at all. Numerous times he's saved us from a counterattack or threatening opportunity for an opposing team. He's also pretty good at buying fouls too. 

He's been really hard done by on Saturday. 

[Ric]

43 minutes ago, Irrational Behaviour said:

Ferguson is brilliant at his role in terms of cynical fouls. Wouldn't want that to change at all. Numerous times he's saved us from a counterattack or threatening opportunity for an opposing team. He's also pretty good at buying fouls too. 

He's been really hard done by on Saturday. 

Odd angle to take - "I don't mind him 'cheating', bur if he's punished for it then he's been hard done by" - I get that you are accepting of the situation, btw, not damning you for the point you're making.

This is the image from the BBC page, the video goes on to have Stewart point blankly saying there is no justification for the yellow, yet the image tells a different story...

It's clear Ferguson has his hands around Obika's waist and we know the position these two players were on the pitch at the time. Pulling back people as they are on the break has been a yellow card offence for years, people shouldn't be surprised at Madden. Did Obika use his experience to be in a position where it would lead to a foul? Yes, clearly, but the action was Ferguson's, not Obika's.

As for the handball, modern rules state it's a penalty, but even before then his hand was in an "unnatural position" as he had extended it. I get that it was reactionary rather than intended but that doesn't change the outcome.

I can understand Aberdeen fans feeling a bit pissed off. After all, in all likeliness, Obika's shot was far too weak to trouble Lewis and Ferguson letting him go unimpeded was unlikely to have led to a goal, but we are dealing with whataboutery if we start to debate that. The only people to blame are the Aberdeen players involved. McInnes having a shot art Madden is him trying to deflect from that.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

10 minutes ago, Ric said:

This is the image from the BBC page, the video goes on to have Stewart point blankly saying there is no justification for the yellow, yet the image tells a different story...

 

As has been said repeatedly and correctly on here, it's very difficult to justify a decision based on a still image in most circumstances.

For instance, Ferguson may have been holding onto Obika's waist to prevent himself from falling after getting a face full of elbow.

Having seen the incident it does look soft. But if it's the result after an accumulation of fouls then it's not totally surprising.

The penalty is an absolute stick on though and I don't know how anyone can argue against it. New or old rule the ball is traveling in the direction of the goal and his arm is out from his body.

We're getting our fair share of penalties this season but are also giving away far too many as well. This has to stop considering we don't often look like putting more than one goal past teams.

[Ric]

17 minutes ago, Zapp Brannigan said:

For instance, Ferguson may have been holding onto Obika's waist to prevent himself from falling after getting a face full of elbow.

In terms of excuses, that has to be one of the worst I've seen. Not least because the "elbow to the face" never happened and it's only after Ferguson commits the foul then falls over does he fall into Obkia's hand. Did Obika have his arm raised to block his movement, sure, although it should be noted that it wasn't obstruction as Obika at the time would be considered in control of the ball with Ferguson the one initiating the contact.

In regard to your point of static images, that's not strictly true, in the sense that it's clear he is holding onto him. We aren't judging force or intent here, the simple act of him having his arms around his waist is enough to offset the claims made by Stewart in the associated Sportscene piece. Which is why I shared it rather than it intended as a smoking gun.

I get that Aberdeen fans aren't apoplectic at Madden's decision, just disappointed in it (at the same time accepting Ferguson's 'nippy sweety' game style).

Edited December 7, 2020 by Ric

[AJF]

43 minutes ago, Ric said:

Odd angle to take - "I don't mind him 'cheating', bur if he's punished for it then he's been hard done by" - I get that you are accepting of the situation, btw, not damning you for the point you're making.

 

I appreciate you put it in quotation marks, but let's not get into the realm of considering cynical/professional fouls as cheating.

Fouling is part of the game, hence why there are punishments in respect of a caution or sending off if you commit too many/a serious one.

I wish more players took one for the team every now and then. If anyone watched the Sheffield Utd v Leicester game yesterday then you'll know what I mean. Vardy gets played through in the final minute of the match, 1v1 against the keeper. A Sheffield Utd player slightly behind him should've wiped him out. He'd get a red card for it but would almost certainly have prevented his team conceding in the last minute.

That being said, there was little value in Ferguson committing that foul on Saturday straight after half time, my point is more of a general one about those types of fouls being considered cheating.

[Ric]

1 minute ago, AJF said:

I appreciate you put it in quotation marks, but let's not get into the realm of considering cynical/professional fouls as cheating.

Fouling is part of the game, hence why there are punishments in respect of a caution or sending off if you commit too many/a serious one.

Imagine an OF fan actively supporting the use of cynical fouls in the full knowledge that referees are more likely to let those teams get away with them..

 

 

 

[AJF]

Just now, Ric said:

Imagine an OF fan actively supporting the use of cynical fouls in the full knowledge that referees are more likely to let those teams get away with them..

 

 

 

Christ, if that's what you took away from my comments then that's one almighty reach you've taken to arrive at that conclusion.

[Ric]

4 minutes ago, AJF said:

Christ, if that's what you took away from my comments then that's one almighty reach you've taken to arrive at that conclusion.

Oooh, away your indignation, it was clearly intended as a joke.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Ric

[Zapp Brannigan]

18 minutes ago, Ric said:

In terms of excuses, that has to be one of the worst I've seen. Not least because the "elbow to the face" never happened and it's only after Ferguson commits the foul then falls over does he fall into Obkia's hand.  

For clarity's sake I wasn't using that as an excuse, merely offering up an example to how still images can provide ambiguity without the context of the actual incident.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

What are we actually arguing about here ?

The fact is that it's professional football. If Ferguson can't play the referee then it's his own daft fault for being red carded. 

Scott Brown has made a career out of understanding what each individual referee in each match will, and won't, allow him to get away with. 

We can all whine on about Brown's cynical play all we want, but the fact is he's damn good at it, has been the most influential midfielder in Scotland for many years now (not so much these days), and we would have all had Brown at his peak in our own teams. 

I'm not saying that Ferguson mirrors Brown, but there are similarities about the way they both play the game. Ferguson is a very intelligent footballer, but he didn't read the unpredictable Bobby Madden very well on Saturday. 

If he got the second red card because of consistent fouling, then I've got to presume that Madden had warned him beforehand, and then it's up to Ferguson to adapt his behaviour. 

[AJF]

1 minute ago, Ric said:

Oooh, away your indignation, it was clearly intended as a joke.

 

Fair enough, it's often hard to judge the tone of written posts. Apologies.