Scottish lower league football locked down for 3 weeks

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Jan Vojáček said:

But if the green-light was given now, clubs would only return to training next week. Games wouldn't take place until March at the earliest and - I'd like to think - we might see some loosening of the restrictions by then.

We're not talking about having fans in here. We're talking about games taking place with an entourage of about 25 people (players, coaches, physio etc) all of whom will have been tested during the week. As far as I know we won't be testing prior to people going into Hobbycraft for some model glue and a jigsaw, so the two aren't directly comparable. Especially when games have been continuing during the level four lockdowns that we had in the west prior to Christmas anyway.

Looking at the stats, the last time we had rates of under 50 per 100k was in mid-September. Whilst we're going the right way towards that, it really won't be possible unless a full-scale lockdown remains in place until about April. And that includes the weans being kept off school.

I agree and I don't think that the SG's overall strategy is going to be the most effective: not least once they start chucking weans back into schools. However when it comes to easing restrictions there are countless other priorities that are ahead of 'restarting semi-professional football', for which we also have no criteria or timeframe set out for their return. That should be at the back of the queue for restarting.

Edited February 9, 2021 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

The fact the top two leagues "get their sole living wage" from football is completely irrelevant. You could furlough them the same as we have done. If we're basing this on safety or importance then there is no real justification for professional or semi-professional football to continue. 

The top two leagues are being allowed to continue so that the the TV deals are upheld and we don't have a mass extinction event of Scottish football clubs. Which is fine.

It is not irrelevant. Outdoor competitive football is the sole wage-earning occupation for the overwhelming majority of players in the top two tiers. It is a supplement/glorified hobby the further down you go from that. The SG does not care about a TV contract which was not actually fulfilled last season.

I'd argue that all football outside of the top flight without fans is a complete waste of time and resources, but if you're going to draw a cut-off between essential work/elite professional sport - just as has happened in England - then that's where you would draw the line. The previous system of pretending that the likes of the East of Scotland league was an elite competition that could travel all over their region to play while ordinary people couldn't leave their local authority area was a stack of nonsense. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by vikingTON

[The Moonster]

6 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

I think they should take the prize money and give it to Neil Doncaster. The man's a saint and has worked awfy, awfy hard to save Scottish football. 

The man does what clubs ask of him. If he wasn't doing what clubs asked of him he'd have been removed from his position long ago. 

[DiegoDiego]

If it's not a drop off in case numbers, then what should any decision be based on?

It's quite clearly laid out on the Scottish government website. It includes things like hospital bed usage.

[Skyline Drifter]

30 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

Genuine question. If the league is declared null and void, is the prize money still handed out - and if so is it divided equally, or based on club's current league positions?

There's no precedent for that. It would be up for debate and vote presumably. It's not directly covered by rules. Whilst I'm sure it wouldn't be the case, you could argue null and void = no prize money. That was the argument put forward last season, although that's mainly about the top division and the commercial contracts relating to it.

[Jack Burton]

Clyde fans seem very keen to have everything stopped anyway.

Of course we are our team is utter shite this season.

Reducing it to 18 games would have everyone voting along self interest again. It is about the only manageable way to get the season finished though.

Some teams would only have 7 games left if you don't come back and hit the ground running then you could easily f**k up your promotion or relegation chances within a few games.

[The Moonster]

Just now, virginton said:

It is not irrelevant. Outdoor competitive football is the sole wage-earning occupation for the overwhelming majority of players in the top two tiers.

Being a bar manager is probably the sole wage-earning occupation for a lot of people too but they've been shut down and told to deal with furlough. It being the sole wage-earning occupation isn't reason enough to continue playing. If it's not safe to play football then it should've been lights out for everyone. 

We're told the SG never told football to stop and the league made that decision, so why would the SG need to care about the TV deal for the top divisions to continue? 

We paid some money back on the TV deal last season but the whole reason null and void could not be entertained (we were told) was because we could potentially lose most of it and it would be disastrous for clubs. 

[Newbornbairn]

7 minutes ago, virginton said:

It is not irrelevant. Outdoor competitive football is the sole wage-earning occupation for the overwhelming majority of players in the top two tiers. It is a supplement/glorified hobby the further down you go from that. The SG does not care about a TV contract which was not actually fulfilled last season.

I'd argue that all football outside of the top flight without fans is a complete waste of time and resources, but if you're going to draw a cut-off between essential work/elite professional sport - just as has happened in England - then that's where you would draw the line. The previous system of pretending that the likes of the East of Scotland league was an elite competition that could travel all over their region while ordinary people couldn't leave their local authority area was a stack of nonsense. 

"elite professional sport" and Scottish football - lol.

 

All football should have been shut down. It's only entertainment, it produces absolutely f**k-all of worth to society. Construction sites are essential, keep them open. Food supply is essential, keep that open. Rubbish collection, hospitals, emergency services - all essential, keep them open. Football is not essential and has no more justification to be open than Primark. 

 

As for what they cobbled together - glorified training sessions in empty stadiums with cardboard photies of fans and fake crowd noises - "elite professional sport" my arse. 

 

Keeping it open is ridiculous, drawing imaginary lines and saying this bunch of pathetic teams can play and this bunch of pathetic teams can't is just theatre of the absurd. 

[Guest The Phoenix]

27 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

. If everyone listened to the advice, abided by the rules and done what we are asked then we might get back a bit earlier.

In other words do exactly what we were doing before we were abitrately shut down by the SFA? 

[bairn88]

Given case rates are lower and decreasing than when he made this statement, is it fair to ask if the SFA are lying? 

[Jan Vojáček]

19 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

55 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

If it's not a drop off in case numbers, then what should any decision be based on?

It's quite clearly laid out on the Scottish government website. It includes things like hospital bed usage.

Well yes. But the number of people in hospital with Covid tends to fluctuate based on the number of people with Covid.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

There's no precedent for that. It would be up for debate and vote presumably. It's not directly covered by rules. Whilst I'm sure it wouldn't be the case, you could argue null and void = no prize money. That was the argument put forward last season, although that's mainly about the top division and the commercial contracts relating to it.

I'm sure that situation won't end up getting messy if that's what it comes to.

[FREDDYFRY]

Correct decision given infection rates, personally I’d null & void it or at very least mothball till August and restart where we are now

[Stag Nation]

24 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

We're told the SG never told football to stop and the league made that decision, so why would the SG need to care about the TV deal for the top divisions to continue?

No, we were told that the SFA made the decision, not the league(s). You clearly weren't listening.

[DiegoDiego]

Well yes. But the number of people in hospital with Covid tends to fluctuate based on the number of people with Covid.

They're strongly correlated but not 1.0. Things like vaccines, volume of testing (we don't actually know how many people have covid) and new strains affect it too. Then there are the issues with lifting national restrictions when you have localised clusters and so on. It's too simplistic to say "we'll only reinstate lower league when Scottish cases fall below 50/10,000/day".

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

1 hour ago, latapythelegend said:

We've been through it all last year when no other games were played and 3 teams got relegated. Whoever is bottom would still have 50% of their games to turn it around. Nothing about that is unfair. If your bottom after a third of a season and worried about being bottom and two thirds of the season, you're more than likely going to be bottom after the final third. 

Can you do my football coupon please? Insight like that could make me a fortune.

[latapythelegend]

5 minutes ago, SouthLanarkshireWhite said:

Can you do my football coupon please? Insight like that could make me a fortune.

I'll give you the Clyde fans wet dream correct score forecast each week until May:

P-P

P-P

P-P

P-P

P-P

[AndyDD]

Worth remembering that the new strain of the virus, which is very well settled here now having come up from england, and which was not a factor until mid to late December and into January, the period that saw the spikes in infection and caused the suspension in the first place, is much more infectious than the original strain. 

The prevalence level, then, needs to be even lower than it was in, say, October or November, because this version of the virus spreads more easily and more rapidly. 

It feels like a moving of the goalposts, given the big drop in prevalence from late december/mid january to now, but every case is now likely to be more infectious, due to the mutation of the strain. 

That is likely why they want to wait until the cases drop further. 

Maybe should decide that the team who finishes second should be the one contesting the playoff with the second bottom team in the league above this season, to avoid as big a delay for the championship side as it appears there might be if we play to a finish. 

Whomever finishes second to us, then... Chuckle. 

[The Moonster]

51 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

No, we were told that the SFA made the decision, not the league(s). You clearly weren't listening.

I stand corrected. Point stands that it wasn't the SG who stopped us.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

Being a bar manager is probably the sole wage-earning occupation for a lot of people too but they've been shut down and told to deal with furlough. It being the sole wage-earning occupation isn't reason enough to continue playing. If it's not safe to play football then it should've been lights out for everyone. 

We're told the SG never told football to stop and the league made that decision, so why would the SG need to care about the TV deal for the top divisions to continue? 

Because the SG is now weighing in on whether clubs should restart, as part of the country's general reopening strategy. The exact same thing happened in 2020: the leagues were suspended by the football authorities and the green light to restart sought from the SG.

And the professional/non-professional distinction is important. Travel for essential work purposes is covered within the existing restrictions: so a professional football club can travel up to Inverness or vice versa because that's a fundamental part of their job. There is no essential reason for Blackburn United or Gala Fairydean to travel because that is not a job.  

 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, NewBornBairn said:

"elite professional sport" and Scottish football - lol.

 

All football should have been shut down. It's only entertainment, it produces absolutely f**k-all of worth to society. Construction sites are essential, keep them open. Food supply is essential, keep that open. Rubbish collection, hospitals, emergency services - all essential, keep them open. Football is not essential and has no more justification to be open than Primark. 

 

As for what they cobbled together - glorified training sessions in empty stadiums with cardboard photies of fans and fake crowd noises - "elite professional sport" my arse. 

 

Keeping it open is ridiculous, drawing imaginary lines and saying this bunch of pathetic teams can play and this bunch of pathetic teams can't is just theatre of the absurd. 

I agree that the bottom three tiers of the SPFL shouldn't be playing. Indeed, I said back in the summer that they shouldn't have started at all and it was complete and utter idiocy for clubs to do so with no credible  prospect of fans returning to grounds. 

However that's got nothing to do with the reasons for this denial of a restart, or for the two professional tiers to still be playing now. From the perspective of the government, the cut-off is logical and the decision to not let Elgin head down to Stranraer when the country is being told to stay at home for all non-essential reasons entirely obvious and straightforward.