The 2021 election and a mandate for Indyref2.

[Double Jack D]

25 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Reading through the HOL's report on the effect of Scottish Independence on the uk I came across a wee tidbit that stated that Scottish Lords wishing to remain in the westminster HOL would have to relocate.

All these grubby little Labour, Liberal and Tory present House of Lords political appointees would have to gtf.

That put a shine on my shite this morning. 

Would put that in the Pro's column.

[Elric]

Serious point here - if we do get Independence will it automatically be assumed that we wish to rejoin the EU or will there be another referendum?  I am aware that there was a majority of those who voted wished to remain but almost 33% of those eligible to vote did not vote at the referendum.

Electorate: 3,987,112

Turnout: 67.2%

Valid votes: 2,679,513

Edited February 19, 2021 by Elric

[SandyCromarty]

21 minutes ago, Elric said:

Serious point here - if we do get Independence will it automatically be assumed that we wish to rejoin the EU or will there be another referendum?  I am aware that there was a majority of those who voted wished to remain but almost 33% of those eligible to vote did not vote at the referendum.

Electorate: 3,987,112

Turnout: 67.2%

Valid votes: 2,679,513

In their 2019 Manifesto the SNP stated that they would support a referendum to remain in the EU and stop Brexit.

Obviously that never happened.

Don't take my word for it,  but it looks like the SNP on gaining a Yes vote for Independence would immediately apply for EU membership as the separation negotiations from the uk were ongoing.

Their proviso for applying would be based on the Scottish positive remain vote in the uk wide Brexit referendum.

[oneteaminglasgow]

38 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Who's this new fanny then, I've not been on as much lately

I believe that he’s an old man who used to troll on the Falkirk threads, but everyone there just ignores him now so he’s decided to pitch up here instead.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

I believe that he’s an old man who used to troll on the Falkirk threads, but everyone there just ignores him now so he’s decided to pitch up here instead.

Best way to discourage a troll is not to respond.  Sadly that rarely happens in the politics forum.

 

[Gordon EF]

2 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

Who's this new fanny then, I've not been on as much lately

Some weird MAGA type who seems to have branched out from polluting Falkirk threads with his shit politics.

It's always fun when people who are just objectively arse holes threaten to leave the country if X happens, as if the vast majority don't see that as a massive incentive to vote for X.

[vikingTON]

29 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Some weird MAGA type who seems to have branched out from polluting Falkirk threads with his shit politics.

That's like dropping litter at Chernobyl by now. 

[Elric]

3 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

In their 2019 Manifesto the SNP stated that they would support a referendum to remain in the EU and stop Brexit.

Obviously that never happened.

Don't take my word for it,  but it looks like the SNP on gaining a Yes vote for Independence would immediately apply for EU membership as the separation negotiations from the uk were ongoing.

Their proviso for applying would be based on the Scottish positive remain vote in the uk wide Brexit referendum.

Thgnks for the reply

[Anonapersona]

13 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Two points.

1. If Scotland ever does gain independence it will be at least a decade after all the divorce shenanigans before it will join the EU.  And the same divorce shenanigans will take at least a decade..  So it will be at least 20 years on from a 'yes' vote that Scotland will be an independent country in Europe.

2. Dim Dave Cameron caught us short in 2014.  I fully expect - if there ever is a rerun - our British government to be better prepared and to offer:

A. a relocation package for businesses who want to escape south - including such things as relief on business rates, rent-free accommodation for a time and support and retraining for families who want to move with those businesses. 

B An opt out for council areas of Scotland who don't want to be part of the Caledonian Transnistria.  Nice areas such as Orkney and Shetland, The Borders and D&G don't want to be part of this nasty putsch - and there may well be others such as Aberdeen & shire along with East Lothian, Edinburgh and Perthshire who detest it.  These areas need an option to remain in the UK and I expect such an option to be part of any IndyRef2 package.

I think if a future rerun of 2014 is conducted along those lines we'd soon see who really want independence and it wouldn't be many.

I think it's more likely that Westminster will try to give the poorer bits of England to us.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Some interesting points there which I’ll need to give some thought to.
If independence ever  looked like coming about, god forbid, on a personal level I would certainly want my assets to be under UK control and sterling denominated and I think most people within my circle would feel similarly.To imagine some form of socialist, gender bending, speech policing Scottish government running my affairs is just too horrible to comprehend. Ugh!,!

You are your "circle" are quite clearly fucking bigots.

[AlbionMan]

7 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

This is desperate, really desperate stuff. The Balkans imploded into genocidal violence a generation ago, a situation a whole lot more dire than anything the UK could envisage, yet remarkably political and economic stability was restored. Yet under your warped crystal-ball gazing for an independent Scotland an economic rat-run would be established and the likes of 'Royal Deeside' would become unionist enclaves. Really ? Are you Jed Mercurio by any chance ?

You are sadly mistaken if you imagine that potical and economic stability has returned to the Balkans. Croatia and Slovenia are in the EU and have a measure of stability, the other republics are in dire straits under both measures.

Nowhere in the other former Yugoslavia states including Kosovo is youth unemployment below 30% and in Kosovo it is 60%. Total unemployment  in these states is 15% in Serbia, 20% in three others and 29% in Kosovo.

Bosnia in particular is a political disaster area with little to stop it falling apart with or without violence.

Edited February 19, 2021 by AlbionMan

[SandyCromarty]

2 hours ago, Anonapersona said:

I think it's more likely that Westminster will try to give the poorer bits of England to us.

Google the HOL and other westminster reports  that were published prior to the 2014 Independence referendum, they took the possibility of a breakaway seriously and spent considerable time analysing and forecasting in great detail and at great cost the effect Independence would have on the remaining uk.

There re areas where it deteriorates into Monty Python silliness.

Edited February 19, 2021 by SandyCromarty

[DA Baracus]

What is it about the 'union' that attracts bigot scum like the two mewling morons who recently spewed their desperate, tragic lies and bigotry? 

Imagine actually being on the side of the bigots.

[The_Kincardine]

11 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

I'll reply to your first point because the rest is just pie in the sky unionist scare story nonsense.

1- Where the feck did you get this 20 years Separation from the UK and joining the EU from? 

1. To untie New Nedland from the UK will take a decade - at least.  The amount of effort involved in rewriting all of the systems and processes needed for a new country is impossible to achieve in a 3 year timescale.

As a simple illustration, in 2018 NedGov wanted to take control of certain payments to disabled people and said they could do so in 2 years at a cost of £200 million.  The latest estimate is that said system MAY be available in 2024 at a cost of £650 million.  This probably represents less than 0.5% of all of the government processes and if you can't even get that right then what hope is there for everything else?

Using that as a benchmark, a decade's span to untangle  Neo Jockland from the rest is modest and the bill will be in the tens of billions - which you can't afford.

2. You can't run the the process of untangling from the UK in parallel with trying to accede to the EU for two reasons.  A.  You don't have the bandwidth/expertise/personnel to do so and, more importantly, B The EU will tell you to GTF and come back when you're an independent country - in about a decade.  You'd then go through the normal accession process which will take about a decade.

So 20 years is a fairly modest estimate for an independent Caledonian Transnistria to be a member of the EU.

[sophia]

magnificent

[The_Kincardine]

12 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

This is desperate, really desperate stuff. The Balkans imploded into genocidal violence a generation ago, a situation a whole lot more dire than anything the UK could envisage, yet remarkably political and economic stability was restored. Yet under your warped crystal-ball gazing for an independent Scotland an economic rat-run would be established and the likes of 'Royal Deeside' would become unionist enclaves. Really ? Are you Jed Mercurio by any chance ?

1. It certainly isn't.  The British Government has a responsibility to ensure the citizenship of British people - a point that was missed by Daft Dave in 2014.
2. The word you're searching for is 'exclave'.
3. Having lived in both N Lanarkshire and Royal Deeside the idea of belonging to a country dominated by neddish grievance-junkies from the rustbelt will be unacceptable to many.

The solution of giving businesses and regions an opt out from New Nedonia is simple and palatable to many.

[Gordon EF]

6 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

1. It certainly isn't.  The British Government has a responsibility to ensure the citizenship of British people - a point that was missed by Daft Dave in 2014.

How would Scottish independence jeopardise any single person's British citizenship?

[lichtgilphead]

14 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

The British Government has a responsibility to ensure the citizenship of British people

I'm considering retaining a UK passport after independence just to raise your blood pressure further. 

Obviously, I'll not use it when travelling in most of Europe  My Scottish/EU passport will be far more convenient & quicker through the queues.

[HTG]

6 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

I'm considering retaining a UK passport after independence just to raise your blood pressure further. 

Obviously, I'll not use it when travelling in most of Europe  My Scottish/EU passport will be far more convenient & quicker through the queues.

It'll be handy if you've got a wobbly table. 

[The_Kincardine]

4 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

I'm considering retaining a UK passport after independence just to raise your blood pressure further. 

Obviously, I'll not use it when travelling in most of Europe  My Scottish/EU passport will be far more convenient & quicker through the queues.

If NedGov don't issue passports in tartan batters - Royal Stuart for the hoi polloi and Blackwatch for the Unionists - I will be sorely disappointed.