The All-New Polis Discussion Thread

[velo army]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

Your disapproval is entirely expected. It's not so much your naiveté, it's your lack of logic and imagination. You're going to reject all the available evidence about Police Scotland being riddled with misogyny and racism because... what? Being a black woman you've never seen it? You want to believe the polis are the good guys so you choose to reject anything that contradicts it?

"Sheku Bayoh custody death officer 'hates black people'"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34529611

All available evidence that Police Scotland is riddled with racism. That's quite the claim mate and I would expect more working to be shown than a single officer.

You also said that we shouldn't use our own positive experiences with the police to judge them, especially if we are white and male. It's a profoundly biased and dishonest take that presumes sexism and racism without providing any evidence for it. It's also a textbook example of confirmation bias; i.e. you have decided that police scotland are institutionally sexist and racist (and not the met, before you use the Stephen Lawrence findings to bash PS with) and will ignore evidence to the contrary.

 

[Derry Alli]

Most of the Police are sound. They get a lot of grief, most of it unwarranted. Said it before on here, most of my dealings with them seem to be older police = sound, puppy police = arseholes.

I've no idea whether it's a generational thing or whether they have the arseholeyness berated out of them by the public but if I dealt more with the young than the old I'd definitely be more inclined to be full FTP(olis) than I am. 

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Alli said:

Most of the Police are sound. They get a lot of grief, most of it unwarranted. Said it before on here, most of my dealings with them seem to be older police = sound, puppy police = arseholes.

I've no idea whether it's a generational thing or whether they have the arseholeyness berated out of them by the public but if I dealt more with the young than the old I'd definitely be more inclined to be full FTP(olis) than I am. 

Your opinion & experiences aren’t valid because you’re a white male. 

Just found a clip of Gordon S himself in action:

 

 

[GordonS]

6 minutes ago, velo army said:

All available evidence that Police Scotland is riddled with racism. That's quite the claim mate and I would expect more working to be shown than a single officer.

You also said that we shouldn't use our own positive experiences with the police to judge them, especially if we are white and male. It's a profoundly biased and dishonest take that presumes sexism and racism without providing any evidence for it. It's also a textbook example of confirmation bias; i.e. you have decided that police scotland are institutionally sexist and racist (and not the met, before you use the Stephen Lawrence findings to bash PS with) and will ignore evidence to the contrary.

 

Helps to have read the thread - this was on page 1: "Damning report finds bigotry and misogyny in Police Scotland": https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18863352.damning-report-finds-bigotry-misogyny-police-scotland/

This is by no means the only evidence.

The "one officer" thing is nonsense. Officers do this stuff when they know they're likely to get away with it. That's how you know it's not about one officer, it's about the organisational culture. 

You're talking utter mince I'm afraid. What I'm saying is that your experiences as a white adult Scottish male of the police can tell you literally nothing about how the police act towards people that don't look like you. It's really ironic that you mention confirmation bias. "Well, I've never been racially abused by the police so I'm going to take that evidence over everything that brown people say."

I look forward to you acknowledging you were mistaken and recognising the awful findings of that report... 

[jamamafegan]

Haven’t got a strong opinion on the police and quite surprised to see how many folk hate them on here. I’ve no doubt there are some utter c***s among them who are on a power trip but the majority of them are probably decent people who want to make the streets a safer place and take enjoyment from doing so.

The majority of them will probably spend their time dealing with drunken arseholes, junkies or just minks in general who will happily spit in their face. f**k that.

[GordonS]

Just so they know, I've put the bootlickers on ignore. Your opinions are worthless to me because they're based on feelings rather than evidence.

[GordonS]

Just now, jamamafegan said:

Haven’t got a strong opinion on the police and quite surprised to see how many folk hate them on here. I’ve no doubt there are some utter c***s among them who are on a power trip but the majority of them are probably decent people who want to make the streets a safer place and take enjoyment from doing so.

The majority of them will probably spend their time dealing with drunken arseholes, junkies or just minks in general who will happily spit in their face. f**k that.

You say "probably"; why? Gut instinct based on what you're personally seen?

[Angus_Don]

As a retired cop who packed it in after 25 years service, the correct answer is that a single officer (myself included) can be both a b*****d and good person.  Pathetic Nuanced Shitebag is the correct answer to the poll.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Angus_Don

[velo army]

39 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Just so they know, I've put the bootlickers on ignore. Your opinions are worthless to me because they're based on feelings rather than evidence.

You seem really angry about this mate. I'll admit I didn't read the article at the start and having looked at that herald piece I'll accept that there is a problem with racism in police scotland. I had no problem accepting that there was homophobia and misogyny before, I took that as a given tbh. While I find that objectionable institutional change takes time. 

I have no skin in this game. I have pals in the polis and I've dealt with the police both personally and professionally. I've been lifted, ticketed (all during my heavy drinking days) and had other engagements with them. I'm not particularly keen on how they deal with protest. That's something which might need to be looked at. I had friends involved in sit-ins at universities a few years ago and the police were quite unreasonable apparently. it gives more truth to the notion that they are there primarily to defend property.

Enjoy your night mate.

 

[MONKMAN]

I grew up around a lot of serving and retired police, who were sound as f**k. Nowadays, younger police are generally a bunch of bitter, jumped up arseholes who were bullied at school. You get the odd decent one, but the majority are fuds.

[GordonS]

31 minutes ago, velo army said:

You seem really angry about this mate. I'll admit I didn't read the article at the start and having looked at that herald piece I'll accept that there is a problem with racism in police scotland. I had no problem accepting that there was homophobia and misogyny before, I took that as a given tbh. While I find that objectionable institutional change takes time. 

I have no skin in this game. I have pals in the polis and I've dealt with the police both personally and professionally. I've been lifted, ticketed (all during my heavy drinking days) and had other engagements with them. I'm not particularly keen on how they deal with protest. That's something which might need to be looked at. I had friends involved in sit-ins at universities a few years ago and the police were quite unreasonable apparently. it gives more truth to the notion that they are there primarily to defend property.

Enjoy your night mate.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty angry about an organisation with extraordinary power to f**k up people's lives, even kill them, having serious institutional problems with racism and sexism, among other things. I think that's the kind of thing you're supposed to be angry about.

I'm also angry at the bootlicking authoritarians who provide the cover to let it happen. In other times and places these are literally the worst people in the world. 

I generally get angry at people who think the anecdotes of their own personal experiences are somehow equivalent with actual evidence. That's not aimed at you btw, just explaining some of my anger here.

I try to stay away from the political stuff here because I have no tolerance for morons - I've got every respect for different opinions, just not for manifest stupidity - but I couldn't sleep last night and this thread really pushed my buttons. 

I agree, institutional change takes time. I also agree that policing is a really hard job and that the burden of mental health work that's fallen on them is a sign of hard policy failure. But from everything I've read and heard about the leadership of Police Scotland, the Scottish Police Authority and the Met, they're definitely not getting better any time soon. In fact I expect them to get worse.

And with that I'm off to another forum bicker about the minutiae of the rules for the play-offs to get into the Lowland League... 

[invergowrie arab]

8 hours ago, Elric said:

Unless he is still under the Children's Panel at 16 he is an adult and his parent's do not need to be informed that he is going to be questioned. If his ADHD been disclosed at time of arrest then an appropriate adult may have been appointed.

It was common knowledge at one time that a firm of lawyers insisted that their clients always made a complaint against the police, whether justified or not, so that when the matter went to trial the lawyer could ask the police if they were the subject of a complaint by the accused and therefore cast doubt on the matter.

If you want to hear lies told in court then you should listen to some of the lawyers and their excuses for their client's behaviour.  "My client is not a drinker but he had two shandies that night"

Luckily the onus isn't on a minor with a disability to disclose it but the officer to ascertain it so everything will be inadmissible in court.

On a sliding scale of lies I'll put your example at about a 1 and two coppers fitting up a disabled child and the victim of an assault to detract from their own behaviour at 9.5. Just scored below inventing a story and feeding it to the press about blowing a man's brains out on a train. 

[Elric]

10 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Luckily the onus isn't on a minor with a disability to disclose it but the officer to ascertain it so everything will be inadmissible in court.

On a sliding scale of lies I'll put your example at about a 1 and two coppers fitting up a disabled child and the victim of an assault to detract from their own behaviour at 9.5. Just scored below inventing a story and feeding it to the press about blowing a man's brains out on a train. 

At the age of 16 the person is not a minor.  Please show the legislation where the onus is on the police to show that someone has a disability.

[vikingTON]

Gormless Gordon filling another thread with self-righteous pish before putting people on ignore and running away I see. A genuinely abysmal poster. 

[Scary Bear]

I only know one policeman and he’s a good spud. Not much of a sample size. From his stories, I tend to side with the view that the scummier elements of the general public are more of a problem than the police. 

I tend to think that my circle of friends don’t warm to authority figures, so there were raised eyebrows when our friend joined the police. However, we now get good stories of old boys getting caught wanking in their cars and what the young team are up to, so it’s swings and roundabouts really.

[invergowrie arab]

43 minutes ago, Elric said:

At the age of 16 the person is not a minor.  Please show the legislation where the onus is on the police to show that someone has a disability.

It's not in legislation, it's in SOPs which guide an officer as to whther or not legislation applies.

There isn't an "onus on them to show" it's that they have the ultimate  responsibility to make the judgement call correctly.

Having failed to do so anything said during that questioning will be inadmissible in court. Of course that's irrelevant as the intention was to shit him up. 

[Lofarl]

All kicked off down in Bristol.

[101]

4 minutes ago, Lofarl said:

All kicked off down in Bristol.

It's becoming the France of the UK

[NotThePars]

I'm all in on the burnings being psyops with the polis just intentionally leaving vehicles for them to get trashed. 

[throbber]

The protest was called “Kill the Bill” And was apparently hijacked by extremist. Surely  with a protest with the word kill in it was pretty extreme in the first place?