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Celtic v Hibernian. League Cup final, 19th December


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12 minutes ago, Henrik's tongue said:

The best player in Scotland fair divides opinion, eh? :lol: 

His ability cannot be doubted. The only divide in opinion is Celtic fans vs everyone else regarding his ‘gamesmanship’.

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25 minutes ago, AJF said:

His ability cannot be doubted. The only divide in opinion is Celtic fans vs everyone else regarding his ‘gamesmanship’.

As of yet I don’t think he’s had a yellow card for simulation? However a player with a little bit of devilment about them I can forgive especially when they can deliver you moments of pure magic like yesterday.

He is special I just hope we get to keep a hold of him for a good few seasons 

 

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20 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

As of yet I don’t think he’s had a yellow card for simulation? However a player with a little bit of devilment about them I can forgive especially when they can deliver you moments of pure magic like yesterday.

He is special I just hope we get to keep a hold of him for a good few seasons 

 

Saying he hasn’t been carded for simulation is entirely different from saying he is innocent. I agree that a player with something a little extra to their character can be forgiven but that is also different from denying it.

Edited by AJF
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19 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

As of yet I don’t think he’s had a yellow card for simulation? However a player with a little bit of devilment about them I can forgive especially when they can deliver you moments of pure magic like yesterday.

He is special I just hope we get to keep a hold of him for a good few seasons 

 

Another reason to doubt Scotland's referees.

His diving in the first half was so bad it was funny. Maybe he wasn't fully fit, so hadn't been practicing?

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8 minutes ago, AJF said:

Saying he hasn’t been carded for simulation is entirely different from saying he is innocent. I entirely agree that a player with something a little extra to their character can be forgiven but that is also different from denying it.

Well he hasn’t as he doesn’t imo simulate fouls. Does he go down a little too easy? Possibly but I’ve yet to see him blatantly try cheat or con a referee when he hasn’t been touched.

 

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2 minutes ago, colourofthegrass said:

Another reason to doubt Scotland's referees.

His diving in the first half was so bad it was funny. Maybe he wasn't fully fit, so hadn't been practicing?

He barely touched a ball in the 1st half never mind dive. The only time he was down was when he lost his balance after beating the keeper to the ball and he made no attempt to claim a foul

Edited by Jinky67
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7 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Well he hasn’t as he doesn’t imo simulate fouls. Does he go down a little too easy? Possibly but I’ve yet to see him blatantly try cheat or con a referee when he hasn’t been touched.

 

What is the intention of his theatrical collapses then if they are not an attempt to cheat or con a referee?

Using this older video, only one of these incidents should be considered a foul, IMO, which is the Livingston one. Why would he go down like he did in the other incidents if it wasn’t an attempt to either: a) win a foul or b) get an opponent in trouble?

 

Edited by AJF
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11 minutes ago, AJF said:

What is the intention of his theatrical collapses then if they are not an attempt to cheat or con a referee?

Using this older video, only one of these incidents should be considered a foul, IMO, which is the Livingston one. Why would he go down like he did in the other incidents if it wasn’t an attempt to either: a) win a foul or b) get an opponent in trouble?

 

They all do it mate, part of the game now unfortunately 

 

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Just now, Drew Brees said:

They all do it mate, part of the game now unfortunately 

 

No disagreements from me. It doesn’t change my opinion on the matter. For example, Morelos is one of the worst culprits of gamesmanship I can remember. I accept he is a complete c**t, but he is our c**t.

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1 hour ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

The utterly catastrophic refereeing/VAR performance from England this weekend sadly rule it out as a panacea for our refereeing woes. They simply will not be corrected if they operate it in the same way here as down there.

This

 

The refereeing/VAR in the Spurs v Liverpool game beggared belief

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9 minutes ago, AJF said:

What is the intention of his theatrical collapses then if they are not an attempt to cheat or con a referee?

Using this older video, only one of these incidents should be considered a foul, IMO, which is the Livingston one. Why would he go down like he did in the other incidents if it wasn’t an attempt to either: a) win a foul or b) get an opponent in trouble?

 

The Souttar one is also a foul imo, why is he grabbing and twisting at his midriff? He has no reason to have his hands on him in that scenario. 

But the fact is players these days go down easy they all do but for me there is a difference between going down under contact and going down when there is no contact whatsoever. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

The Souttar one is also a foul imo, why is he grabbing and twisting at his midriff? He has no reason to have his hands on him in that scenario. 

But the fact is players these days go down easy they all do but for me there is a difference between going down under contact and going down when there is no contact whatsoever. 

 

 

I think you’d be hard pressed to find a ref that would give a nip or pinch as a foul unless it is to someone’s face.

In terms of your second point, yes, it’s a cautionable offence if a player pretends to have been fouled, but it is equally a cautionable offence if a player attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury, which is what I believe Kyogo has been guilty of.

Edited by AJF
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16 minutes ago, AJF said:

I think you’d be hard pressed to find a ref that would give a nip or pinch as a foul unless it is to someone’s face.

In terms of your second point, yes, it’s a cautionable offence if a player pretends to have been fouled, but it is equally a cautionable offence if a player attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury, which is what I believe Kyogo has been guilty of.

The Celtic fans at the match wouldnt have seen it, but there was one in the first half where the ball had been cleared,  and Kyogo and Hanlon were next to each other (but not "close together") and - much in the same way as the Souttar one - a sniper in the stands must have shot him.

Hanlon looked at him the same way Souttar did because he was unquestionably looking for a pen. This was 5 minutes after his (actual accidental fall) at the other side of the box.

Hes a very talented player, but his play acting is horrendous.

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Kyogo has without a doubt went down easily a couple of times, but the absolute frenzy of radio phone ins, comments from pundits on TV and countless opinion pieces have blown the whole thing way out of proportion, to the point that folks minds are made up and he has a set in stone reputation now. You saw it yesterday when he slipped in the first half, he didn't claim for anything and got up straight away but folk on here and Twitter were giving it the 'theres that pesky wee cheat trying to con the ref again' patter.

It's happened loads of times to loads of players, and Morelos has probably suffered from the same thing. From here on in Kyogo will always be snivelling con artist bringing that diving shite into Oor Game™ regardless of whether he's been fouled or not. He'll be booed at most grounds in the country and the default setting will be to assume he's at it again. It's not really a big deal and in some sense it's all just part of the pantomime (that i would probably partake in if he was an opposition player) but it is interesting to see how quickly the narrative around players and their personalities can form.

If you trace back to when these types of allegations started being made against Kyogo, there's probably an interesting conversation to be had but that's for another time. There's definitely a grain of truth in the idea that he spends a fair amount of time on the deck, although i'm not sure he's quite as cunning as folk make out, think the fact he has the build of a 12 year old and plays in Scottish football might have something to do with it too. 

Edited by Fratelli
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