Bairnardo Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 Personally I see Dons1988s point as somewhat reflective of what my general position is.... Theres a lot to take in and understand, and a lot of people are going to need what some consider to be simple and clear cut points explained to them with patience if we are ever going gnto get anywhere. Someone like Dons1988 is way, WAY down the list of obstacles for trans people to get the rights and respect they deserve since his point is basically that he recognises his own " hang ups" for want of a better phrase, but is also fully and completely aware that trans people don't deserve to be treated any differently to anyone else. Folk need to stop insisting everyone else arrives at the exact same point as them in the exact same time. It doesn't work like that and people need to be given the chance to be educated from their individual starting point. Personally I think we seem to forget that there are large swathes of people in Scotland who grew up in Intolerant places with intolerant people and little to no exposure to minorities or people of different creeds to themselves. Anyway, this certianly going round in circles but I think, good for you if you have already wrapped your head around what it means to have trans people in society, but have some patience with others who haven't, unless they are displaying outright intolerance. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 3 hours ago, Dons_1988 said: People back away because you reduced the points being made to some Neanderthal male attitude of women being someone you want to shag. The point was clearly about the fact that I can’t in good conscience fully commit to the statement ‘trans women are women’ if push came to shove in my own personal experience. That means that in reality I do create a distinction between women and trans women. I don’t pretend to have the right to define what is or isn’t a woman, nor does my view invalidate anyones right to be anything. But the blanket statement I’ve alluded to, which seems to be a pre requisite for supporting trans rights, I don’t feel is appropriate for me. I'm the same. In and of itself the phrase 'transwomen are women' is banal and meaningless. Nobody could either agree or disagree with it with any degree of surety unless the statement is expanded upon, given some context, and the person making the claim actually gives some indication of what they actually mean by 'transwomen are women'. What is it you are saying by making that statement? Are you claiming that transwomen are a subgroup of all women in much the way that, say, tall women, black women, scottish women, or gay women are, or are you claiming that transwomen are actually biological women, or is it more that it's just a political statement intended to show support, solidarity with, and acceptance of trans people? Is it all of these things? Is it none of these things? Once it's clear what is actually intended by making the statement, then people have the necessary ammunition to decide whether they agree or not. On it's own the statement is ambiguous, and I don't see how anyone could conclude that being unable to agree/disagree because of a lack of context makes someone a bigot. You can be fully accepting and supportive of transpeople, but still entirely disagree with the statement 'transwomen are women' depending on what, precisely, the person making the statement is claiming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermik Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/8687957/trans-killer-identifying-baby-scots-prison/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, supermik said: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/8687957/trans-killer-identifying-baby-scots-prison/ Quote It is believed the demands are being taken seriously by the jail By who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 (edited) I don't see it as a major philosophical issue, just a matter of respecting how people feel about themselves. I'd imagine like most people on here, I don't think I've met a biological male who identifies as a woman, but I don't think I'd need to check if they'd had hormone treatment or surgery before treating them with normal respect for who they are. Some of the fishing from mainly right wing American trolls pretending to be trans lesbians and calling women bigots if they don't shag them has succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, they've created a twitter frenzy about something that few people will encounter in their daily lives, and leading to an already marginalised and tiny minority being vilified as scary monsters intent on invading women's toilets. Edited April 10, 2022 by welshbairn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 There is a term for people who identify as the gender they had at birth known as cisgender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, throbber said: There is a term for people who identify as the gender they had at birth known as cisgender. Right on cister! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermik Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 Cisters are doing it for themselves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 Quote I went to the Republic of Ireland to see how the gender self-declaration scheme works. Scotland wants to base its new model largely on what’s been happening there – instead of a lengthy process involving medics, trans people can get a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) within weeks. Out of a population of more than five million, 867 people in Ireland have legally changed their gender by self-declaration. A tiny number – but the impact of the legislation on the transgender community is vast. Being able to have a passport, birth certificate, bank account in the correct name and gender stops trans people having to ‘out’ themselves when they’re travelling, or when they’re applying for things such as jobs and car insurance. It also means their gender is recognised by the state, reducing incidents of discrimination and transphobia, which many people believe Scotland’s current model legitimises. But the most important part of this legislation is the element of self-determination. Not having to ‘prove’ who you are in front of a panel of experts, and instead being able to say who you are, has made life far easier for the Irish trans community. It’s created a greater sense of acceptance. In Dublin, I spoke to a number of people. I could not find any evidence of the legislation leading to men falsely declaring themselves female to invade women-only spaces, as some feminist activists have feared. For everyone who doesn’t need the rights contained in this act, life has continued as it always did. But for the people who need to exercise these rights, it’s been life-changing. https://news.stv.tv/opinion/this-is-what-scotland-can-learn-from-irelands-gender-self-id-scheme 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Departed Soles Brewing, Jersey City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 There's bound to be a group raging about being told to wash their hands. I'd guess it's come up in the Covid thread, but there's no chance I'm wading in to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, BFTD said: There's bound to be a group raging about being told to wash their hands. I'd guess it's come up in the Covid thread, but there's no chance I'm wading in to find out. celtic fans. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 12 hours ago, BFTD said: There's bound to be a group raging about being told to wash their hands. I'd guess it's come up in the Covid thread, but there's no chance I'm wading in to find out. @oaksoft has changed optician, as his old one wanted him to wash his hands. Totally nanny state! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Waldo Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 Dr Erica Anderson claims peer pressure has taken things too far. An interesting one, because she is a physiologist who transitioned a few years ago. I don't know much about her but you'd like to think she knows what she's talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, oaksoft said: This happened months ago Not sure why you're bringing it up again. You really don't get P&B at all, do you? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 43 minutes ago, oaksoft said: There's a difference between a passive sign on a door and someone blocking your way and demanding something or they'll withhold the thing you've already partly paid for. Ain't no OCD freakshow be tellin' ol' Oaky what to do without there being some goddam consequences yo. This happened months ago, my decision was made and I'd forgotten all about it. Not sure why you're bringing it up again. Manky b*****d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 Manky b*****d St Mirren fan - what do you expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 The sporting bodies have started ruling on transgender athletes in women’s competitions. BBC SPORT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweeperDee Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 The sporting bodies have started ruling on transgender athletes in women’s competitions. BBC SPORTCan only agree with it tbh, the sporting advantages of male puberty/testosterone are just too numerous. The open category should gain traction, allowing anyone to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Joe Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) The open category should be restricted to transphobes and fit as f**k trans athletes, just for the chortles *I do realise that it wouldn't be very open Edited June 20, 2022 by Cosmic Joe 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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