Russian invasion of Ukraine

[vikingTON]

19 hours ago, TxRover said:

Please tell me if you would encourage the Labour party’s demands for Border Security be accepted by the Conservatives in order to pass a bill funding a National Security necessity? I think not. As for your clearly deficient understanding of the functioning of the political system in the United States, why you continue to highlight your ignorance is beyond understanding.

If the Labour Party controlled one of the two chambers then yes, that's absolutely what should happen. It's called politics and no amount of temper tantrums will fix the partisan binfire of a country you have chosen to live in.

No amount of 'but... but... Putin' justifies an obviously bogus, jeapordising our national security claim. The national security of Pittsburgh does not in fact hinge on the Donbass or Taiwan.

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Let’s see, Europe sees, correctly, that Ukraine is important going forward as a European member or partner, as does the U.S. The reestablishment of a de facto Russian Empire would be objectively bad for business and security going forward. The Republicans have effectively moved into fawning support of Putin because he’s the “White, Christian strongman” they seem to desire, as he oppresses those nasty gay, transgender, and darker skinned individuals in Russia. They wish they could do the same, hence the push to block immigration in the U.S. (because of all those non-White people showing up at the border) and to restrict voting as well (all those uppity Liberal and ethnic types voting).

1) 'Europe is significantly closer to Ukraine and has a direct stake in the security of the EU's eastern frontier. The US, objectively, does not.

Quite what your temper tantrum is in aid of is a complete mystery then. 

2) Europe is not a hive mind and support is nowhere near as uncontested as you are portraying. Even Poland is attaching its terms and conditions on the provision of ongoing aid to Ukraine. Is the government in Warsaw another stooge of the Kremlin?  

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Now, those same Republicans cannot see that China is watching this particular fight with great interest…note the huge increase in Chinese Militia boats in the South China Sea…and simply know that Vlad is doing things they like. Hell, two of the people on the stage for the Republican debate openly advocate using the U.S. military in Mexico, without Mexico’s acceptance or approval.

Erm yes, I'm sure that the Chinese are just thrilled by the massive success of Russia's campaign before. The amphibious landings will start tomorrow unless the military-industrial complex and corrupt foreign governments junkets get their latest handouts at the citizen's expense!

Not even Americans are thick enough to buy that argument for long. 

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So you do you, and continue your infantile support of Russia’s aggression because they didn’t land at Stranraer. As for your judgement that anyone who expresses anything but admiration for your idiotic takes is a clown or moron, sounds like projection to me.

^^^ unhinged, neoliberal apologist for empire

Edited December 8, 2023 by vikingTON

[TxRover]

18 minutes ago, virginton said:

If the Labour Party controlled one of the two chambers then yes, that's absolutely what should happen. It's called politics and no amount of temper tantrums will fix the partisan binfire of a country you have chosen to live in.

No amount of 'but... but... Putin' justifies an obviously bogus, jeapordising our national security claim. The national security of Pittsburgh does not in fact hinge on the Donbass or Taiwan.

1) 'Europe is significantly closer to Ukraine and has a direct stake in the security of the EU's eastern frontier. The US, objectively, does not.

Quite what your temper tantrum is in aid of is a complete mystery then. 

2) Europe is not a hive mind and support is nowhere near as uncontested as you are portraying. Even Poland is attaching its terms and conditions on the provision of ongoing aid to Ukraine. Is the government in Warsaw another stooge of the Kremlin?  

 

Erm yes, I'm sure that the Chinese are just thrilled by the massive success of Russia's campaign before. The amphibious landings will start tomorrow unless the military-industrial complex and corrupt foreign governments junkets get their latest handouts at the citizen's expense!

Not even Americans are thick enough to buy that argument for long. 

^^^ unhinged, neoliberal apologist for empire

^^^Word salad, closing with favorite wanking material.

[vikingTON]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/09/biden-administration-emergency-authority-tank-shells-israel

What were the chances that such a plucky little, rule of law abiding, neoliberal imperial power could possibly find a fag packet to underwrite acts of genocide with? 

[Freedom Farter]

Zelenskyy attended Javier Milei's inauguration today. The only other notable European politicians there were Santiago Abascal, who is leader of Vox in Spain, and Viktor Orban.

[jagfox]

 

[Freedom Farter]

5 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

Zelenskyy attended Javier Milei's inauguration today. The only other notable European politicians there were Santiago Abascal, who is leader of Vox in Spain, and Viktor Orban.

I didn't see any strategic benefit to doing this as embracing Milei runs the risk of alienating others. Particularly Spain, whose government don't like Milei due to his ties with the Spanish far right (hence Abascal was at the inauguration). 

BBC seem to be suggesting Zelenskyy attended just to get the opportunity to confront Orban so maybe that's what it was about.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-67677593

[vikingTON]

7 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

I didn't see any strategic benefit to doing this as embracing Milei runs the risk of alienating others. Particularly Spain, whose government don't like Milei due to his ties with the Spanish far right (hence Abascal was at the inauguration). 

BBC seem to be suggesting Zelenskyy attended just to get the opportunity to confront Orban so maybe that's what it was about.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-67677593

There's a consistent pattern of Ukraine lining up alongside Israel and the UK in the ranks of craven vassal states. 

[alta-pete]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

There's a consistent pattern of Ukraine lining up alongside Israel and the UK in the ranks of craven vassal states. 

And the alternative is…?

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, alta-pete said:

And the alternative is…?

Erm, not seal-clapping literal war crimes and entirely illegal blockades committed against other peoples around the world. 

[alta-pete]

3 minutes ago, virginton said:

Erm, not seal-clapping literal war crimes and entirely illegal blockades committed against other peoples around the world. 

Ok. Everybody play fair in the sandpit kids. Be nice to each other! 

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

Erm, not seal-clapping literal war crimes and entirely illegal blockades committed against other peoples around the world. 

Aye, because virtue signalling is the best option with a country with the best anti missile and drone tech on the market when a massive neighbour is trying to freeze your citizens and turn the lights off.

[vikingTON]

Just now, welshbairn said:

Aye, because virtue signalling is the best option with a country with the best anti missile and drone tech on the market

In what way is it fucking virtue signalling to condemn either

- Israel's war crimes committed in Gaza since October and/or

- the US' illegal blockade of Cuba, which has been overwhelmingly condemned by the UN General Assembly on more than 30 straight occasions? 

It's not taking down a fucking statue or cancelling a book talk. It is condemning people losing their lives on a daily basis as a result of the American Empire and its client's vile and criminal policies. 

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when a massive neighbour is trying to freeze your citizens and turn the lights off.

In what bizarre, alternative universe is the outcome of that directly linked the Ukraine's UN voting decisions?

Here was me thinking that the whole purpose of the unlimited funds spunked on propping up the government in Kiev was supposed to preserve the independent and sovereign status of a government. Except when they're actually called on to exercise those rights to uphold the freedom of others. 

The facade to fool Western middle-class liberals hasn't taken long to disappear. 

[welshbairn]

15 minutes ago, virginton said:

The facade to fool Western middle-class liberals hasn't taken long to disappear. 

It's not so long since you were saying that Western middle-class liberals were crazy suggesting lovely Vladimir would even think about invading Ukraine, and having half the army camped out in the winter in Belarus and South West Russia meant nothing because they were pre-planned exercises, nothing to see here.

Edited December 11, 2023 by welshbairn

[vikingTON]

Just now, welshbairn said:

It's not so long since you were saying that Western middle-class liberals were crazy suggesting lovely Vladimir would even think about invading Ukraine, and having half the army camped out in the winter in Belarus and South East Russia meant nothing because they were pre-planned exercises, nothing to see here.

I see that you failed to answer the question amid all that bluster. And still no accounting for your equation of literally tens of thousands of people dying in a couple of months as 'virtue-signalling'?

Just how many actual fascists and war criminal governments does your boy have to back until your gubbins blue and gold flag gets quietly put away? 

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, virginton said:

I see that you failed to answer the question amid all that bluster. And still no accounting for your equation of literally tens of thousands of people dying in a couple of months as 'virtue-signalling'?

Just how many actual fascists and war criminal governments does your boy have to back until your gubbins blue and gold flag gets quietly put away? 

You don't think tens of thousands have been dying in Ukraine? Do you think Palestinians don't count because Hamas leaders have been to Moscow asking for help, and that Ukrainians shouldn't be asking for help everywhere too? You've got a very privileged western sensibility about the luxury of choosing who your friends are.

[vikingTON]

29 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

You don't think tens of thousands have been dying in Ukraine? Do you think Palestinians don't count because Hamas leaders have been to Moscow asking for help, and that Ukrainians shouldn't be asking for help everywhere too?

What on earth has asking for help got to do with supporting war crimes and breaches of international law elsewhere in the world? 

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You've got a very privileged western sensibility about the luxury of choosing who your friends are.

Nice try, but you've completely failed to demonstrate how Ukraine's national security hinges on refusing to condemn Israel's actions in Gaza, or an illegal blockade of a sovereign state by a much larger and more aggressive neighbour. 

 

But tell me more about the privilege that plucky wee Ukraine are missing out on, while cheerleading acts of imperialism and embracing actual racists elsewhere in the world. 

[TxRover]

Ukraine appears to have struck the Black Sea Fleet again, this time reportedly destroying the Novocherkassk, an LST, that was alleged to be transporting drones. The size of the explosion and the circulating images, reportedly of the remains of the ship, seem to make that a solid possibility.

[Newbornbairn]

Maybe they can go and ask Poland to build them another one?

 

Oh, wait.

[ICTChris]

Seems like it was hit with a UK supplied Storm Shadow missile.

lots of info on the strike on this thread. Seems a second training vessel was also damaged.

The ships of the Black Sea Fleet decamped from Sevastopol after Ukrainian strikes there, Fedorosia is one of the locations they moved vessels to. 

[ICTChris]

Russia has launched overnight what is possibly the largest single missile and drone attack on Ukraine yet, an estimated 158 fired with around 10% managing to get through Ukrainian air defences. Numerous civilian targets have been hit including a maternity hospital in Dnipro, which appears destroyed.