Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 5 minutes ago, Shadow Play said: 5) Less seats in the away end which would hopefully mean less old firm fans. To show that we are genuinely neighbourly we should ensure there were at least 1,940 seats for the away fans. That would be sufficient for the all United fans that stand by their team. Thank you. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 (edited) Why would Dundee build a stadium that can hold more than 10,000 or 12,000 when for the majority of games it will have 5000-6000 fans in attendance? Obviously for bigger games you'll get more, but for run of the mill league games I don't see why attendances would suddenly jump to more than what Dundee currently get. Edited August 27 by DA Baracus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 12 hours ago, Pens_Dark said: I don't think people realise how long it takes to get these type of projects out of the ground. I've had ones half the size of this that take longer to come to realisation. Given that statutory approvals also seem to take far longer to get given nowadays as pretty much all local authorities like to drag their heels, it comes as no surprise to me that it's taken this long. 'Mooted for years' isn't a barometer for whether something will get built or not. In my experience it is actually the opposite, projects that take this long are usually the ones that happen - good things come to those that wait and all that. I don't claim to have any knowledge of how it will be funded but what I can say, because Nelms has made it public knowledge, is that affordability isn't based on the club whatsoever. The most frustrating thing for me as a Dundee fan is that Nelms probably keeps setting unrealistic targets which people with no affiliation to the club hangs their hat on. It then becomes a stick to beat us with. 'HE SAID IT SHOULD BE BUILT BY NOW, IT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN'. It's nothing to do with this given this was first mooted about 7 years ago and PiP wasn't submitted until this year. Your last paragraph is closer to the mark. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pens_Dark Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 (edited) 23 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: It's nothing to do with this given this was first mooted about 7 years ago and PiP wasn't submitted until this year. Your last paragraph is closer to the mark. I never said that was the reason why it has taken this long. I’m saying it will be a factor in the length of time it takes for statutory approvals to get given, though. I know how it works… Take that out of the equation, if you like. My point still stands - time taken is not a barometer for whether it happens or not. It is just a convenient thing for people to say, well it’s taken this long up to now so it clearly isn’t going ahead. ETA - it’s also not as simple as just saying, well Dundee had only put in for a PPiP application this year. The club has held public consultations, pre-applications and various other things with the council and public for years now. Again - process that needs to be adhered to. Edited August 27 by Pens_Dark 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie McSquackle Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 The video is impressive and I genuinely hope it gets built. If it's successful, these sort of projects can become the blueprint for others to follow. So far though, the people making the money are the architects (the video being the modern equivalent of guys in black turtle necks building models out of balsa wood), planning consultants and the various consultants producing specialised reports on flooding, transport etc. It wouldn't surprise me though if the architects are still wearing black turtle necks and building models. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu2910 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 hour ago, DA Baracus said: Why would Dundee build a stadium that can hold more than 10,000 or 12,000 when for the majority of games it will have 5000-6000 fans in attendance? Obviously for bigger games you'll get more, but for run of the mill league games I don't see why attendances would suddenly jump to more than what Dundee currently get. Can never understand this logic. I would much rather have 12000 seats filled on big occasions only than 7000 seats and lots of people locked out of big games. At Dens in recent years we have sold out easily for a league winning game. Derbies are always 11000+. 12500 is hardly outlandish, if anything it’s a little conservative. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 6 minutes ago, stu2910 said: Can never understand this logic. I would much rather have 12000 seats filled on big occasions only than 7000 seats and lots of people locked out of big games. At Dens in recent years we have sold out easily for a league winning game. Derbies are always 11000+. 12500 is hardly outlandish, if anything it’s a little conservative. Paying money for capacity that’s never used is obviously a waste but seats that are only used occasionally are still bringing in revenue how many times a seat needs to be sold to justify the additional construction will depend on the cost structure of construction and the interest rate but if you’re selling out half a dozen times a season you’re probably fine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locheedee Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Nelms has always said they plan on bringing in extra income with concerts and events so the capacity will take that into account too 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Love the whole out of town experience. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie McSquackle Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 If they work out the seating arrangements, they should be able to extend the area to cater for the larger visiting supports. As long as it's not to the detriment of the home supporters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 13 hours ago, Shadow Play said: If the stadium is built I wouldn’t be opposed to the stadium capacity being set at around the 10,000 mark. Clearly there would be disadvantages with a lesser capacity. The advantages of a capacity around 10,000 would be. 1) Possibly most important of all, less crowd = less traffic. Perhaps that would assist in the planning application. 2) Smaller stadium = reduced cost to build (no idea how much cheaper it would be building a 10,000 seater stadium than a 14,000 seater stadium). 3) No guarantee of tickets for bigger games if smaller capacity which would perhaps make season tickets more desirable. 4) Better atmosphere when the ground is nearer capacity, rather than numerous empty seats. 5) Less seats in the away end which would hopefully mean less old firm fans. To show that we are genuinely neighbourly we should ensure there were at least 1,940 seats for the away fans. That would be sufficient for all the United fans that stand by their team. Difficult to estimate based on economies of scale etc but typical cost is 2.7m for every 1,000 seats so a hefty bump to go from 10,000 to 14,000. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 (edited) On 23/08/2024 at 20:15, pozbaird said: The houses behind the West Stand are currently being demolished. Feck’ knows what, if anything, will be built there. I agree that our new place isn’t in a brilliant location served by bars and whatever. I agree Love Street had the history and a certain character. Away fans had the best stand too - the big Caledonia Road stand. However, at the Valur game, the atmosphere in our wee dinkydome was amazing. It’s fine for us, just wish we had the dosh to fill in the corners. The main issue with SMP is that you have no other reason to be at the stadium other than arriving just before kick off to watch the game, total lack of foresight unless they are planning to invest in new facilities. That goes for a lot of grounds in this country whether they are old or new. I've travelled to numerous lower league grounds in England where some of these grounds are honestly night and day in comparison to what there is in Scotland. Clubs like Bromley have built on site facilities where you have live music, a big bar, restaurants, beer garden, local brewery on site etc. Fans get there hours before kick off and there tends to be entertainment after the match and the place is buzzing with all money spent going back towards the club. Going by the images of the new Dundee stadium, it does appear that this is what they are aiming to replicate and to get people to the stadium early, throw in some entertainment, drink, food, seating etc and get fans to spend most of their day there on match days. Edited August 28 by Butters Scotch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: The main issue with SMP is that you have no other reason to be at the stadium other than arriving just before kick off to watch the game, total lack of foresight unless they are planning to invest in new facilities. That goes for a lot of grounds in this country whether they are old or new. I've travelled to numerous lower league grounds in England where some of these grounds are honestly night and day in comparison to what there is in Scotland. Clubs like Bromley have built on site facilities where you have live music, a big bar, restaurants, beer garden, local brewery on site etc. Fans get there hours before kick off and there tends to be entertainment after the match and the place is buzzing with all money spent going back towards the club. Going by the images of the new Dundee stadium, it does appear that this is what they are aiming to replicate and to get people to the stadium early, throw in some entertainment, drink, food, seating etc and get fans to spend most of their day there on match days. Yeah, the images and video of the Dundee Dome look great. What’s the estimated cost though? Take any of these big projects in Scotland these days, come up with a budget and timescale…. Then double or triple it. At least the Dundee owners haven’t said they’ll throw in a couple of ferry contracts and an Edinburgh tram extension…. I’ll believe that Dundee project the moment I’m actually in it. Until such times…. At least ours got built on time and for the budget, which was dictated by Tesco. If circumstances had been different could St Mirren have got a better more ‘characterful’ stadium? Maybe. Maybe we’d have disappeared down a U Bend marked ‘Gretna’ too. What with the debt and a BoD at the end of the line. We might have ended up with some dodgy owners too. All things considered, we’ll take our shite wee shoeboxes and carry on regardless. Edited August 28 by pozbaird 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 3 hours ago, pozbaird said: Yeah, the images and video of the Dundee Dome look great. What’s the estimated cost though? Take any of these big projects in Scotland these days, come up with a budget and timescale…. Then double or triple it. At least the Dundee owners haven’t said they’ll throw in a couple of ferry contracts and an Edinburgh tram extension…. I’ll believe that Dundee project the moment I’m actually in it. Until such times…. At least ours got built on time and for the budget, which was dictated by Tesco. If circumstances had been different could St Mirren have got a better more ‘characterful’ stadium? Maybe. Maybe we’d have disappeared down a U Bend marked ‘Gretna’ too. What with the debt and a BoD at the end of the line. We might have ended up with some dodgy owners too. All things considered, we’ll take our shite wee shoeboxes and carry on regardless. You don't have to build something like the Dundee design, it's on obscene cost and I'm unsure how it will be paid for as no doubt like all big projects it will go over it's estimated cost. Regarding SM Park, I know the club were in debt and had little money so had little choice possibly but the stadium design just reeks of desperation and poor planning. It was all about getting the stadium up and running as quickly and cheaply as possible. It will do a job but you're going to end up wanting to make significant upgrades in various forms later down the line rather than having the finished article from the start. Surely it wouldn't of costed that much more to build a fan zone/community hub that can operate independently from the stadium where supporters can drink in etc before the games. It would bring in revenue into the club that can end up paying back the costs of building it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: You don't have to build something like the Dundee design, it's on obscene cost and I'm unsure how it will be paid for as no doubt like all big projects it will go over it's estimated cost. Regarding SM Park, I know the club were in debt and had little money so had little choice possibly but the stadium design just reeks of desperation and poor planning. It was all about getting the stadium up and running as quickly and cheaply as possible. It will do a job but you're going to end up wanting to make significant upgrades in various forms later down the line rather than having the finished article from the start. Surely it wouldn't of costed that much more to build a fan zone/community hub that can operate independently from the stadium where supporters can drink in etc before the games. It would bring in revenue into the club that can end up paying back the costs of building it. I definitely think some sort of ‘fan zone’ is a good idea. I remember years ago going to Elland Road, which is quite a bit outside the city centre. On waste ground next to the stadium, they had erected what looked like a big white hospitality tent thing that you see at the Open Golf or somesuch. Was £2 to get in, they had food stands and beer stands. Lots of tables and chairs around, and Sky on TVs dotted around. The beer stands were selling bottled beers. That’s easy surely? Was a good place just to chill out for a bit pre-match. We set up a supporters bar at the (now) SMiSA stadium, but it was a ‘members’ type bar. The 1877 Club. Fair enough, if you wanted to join. The Leeds one was simply open to all - until capacity reached. I prefer the Leeds approach. Edited August 28 by pozbaird 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philpy Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 6 hours ago, Butters Scotch said: The main issue with SMP is that you have no other reason to be at the stadium other than arriving just before kick off to watch the game, total lack of foresight unless they are planning to invest in new facilities. That goes for a lot of grounds in this country whether they are old or new. I've travelled to numerous lower league grounds in England where some of these grounds are honestly night and day in comparison to what there is in Scotland. Clubs like Bromley have built on site facilities where you have live music, a big bar, restaurants, beer garden, local brewery on site etc. Fans get there hours before kick off and there tends to be entertainment after the match and the place is buzzing with all money spent going back towards the club. Going by the images of the new Dundee stadium, it does appear that this is what they are aiming to replicate and to get people to the stadium early, throw in some entertainment, drink, food, seating etc and get fans to spend most of their day there on match days. This exactly, 100%. I've been down to brunton park for a few Carlisle games, and the fan zone is spot on. A couple of big converted shipping containers selling pints, different local food vendors, and an area the players walk through pre-game to greet supporters. A couple of years back, there was no incentive for fans to be at the ground at 1pm. Now the place is heaving by then. Scottish clubs are missing a trick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoP Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 On a smaller scale Cove Rangers have a good bar/ food/ telly bit at the far end open to everyone before they go into the ground Its a no brainer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 At Falkirk on Saturday, I did think they could do way more with all that land around the stadium. It doesn't need to be fancy. On the continent plenty stadia just have picnic benches, or trestle tables and benches then a couple of vans selling burgers and another couple selling beer. The weather is obviously an issue, but add in some basic cover and perhaps patio heaters for the winter months, and I think it could be pretty lucrative for a club like Falkirk where there is f**k all to do within about a twenty minute radius of the stadium. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 8 hours ago, DiegoDiego said: At Falkirk on Saturday, I did think they could do way more with all that land around the stadium. It doesn't need to be fancy. On the continent plenty stadia just have picnic benches, or trestle tables and benches then a couple of vans selling burgers and another couple selling beer. The weather is obviously an issue, but add in some basic cover and perhaps patio heaters for the winter months, and I think it could be pretty lucrative for a club like Falkirk where there is f**k all to do within about a twenty minute radius of the stadium. £££££££££. Plus I don't think Falkirk own the stadium or land. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Read Matthew 7:24-27 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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