The years of discontent, 2022/23

[sophia]

On 29/11/2022 at 09:53, Todd_is_God said:

Teachers in Scotland are very well paid for the work they are contracted to do.

That's entirely your view and you're welcome to it but there are very many that would disagree. I certainly would and it seems to me that there are roles, mostly male dominated, in other sectors that attract salaries that don't necessarily bring the same value as our teachers.

 

[blackislekillie]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

I've no idea what's on the table now, tbh, however it makes no difference to what I said in November.

Except they will be even better paid for what they do. That must grind your gears.

[Todd_is_God]

53 minutes ago, blackislekillie said:

Except they will be even better paid for what they do. That must grind your gears.

Why would it grind my gears?

[Todd_is_God]

1 hour ago, sophia said:

it seems to me that there are roles, mostly male dominated, in other sectors that attract salaries that don't necessarily bring the same value as our teachers.

"Value" is entirely subjective.

Which public sector roles, in your opinion, attract higher salaries whilst bringing less value?

[sophia]

7 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

"Value" is entirely subjective.

Which public sector roles, in your opinion, attract higher salaries whilst bringing less value?

I have no idea* why you are endeavouring to draw me into a reductive public sector debate that is not germane to my point. 

 

 

* I do, you're entirely wrong and you are seeking mask your embarrassment by obfuscation 

[Todd_is_God]

27 minutes ago, sophia said:

I have no idea* why you are endeavouring to draw me into a reductive public sector debate that is not germane to my point. 

 

 

* I do, you're entirely wrong and you are seeking mask your embarrassment by obfuscation 

I don't really care in all honesty but you chose to quote me and made the comment.

I'm asking you to elaborate on what you said.

I've no reason to be embarrassed either.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Todd_is_God

[sophia]

26 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I don't really care in all honesty but you chose to quote me and made the comment.

I'm asking you to elaborate on what you said.

I've no reason to be embarrassed either.

You should 

[Derry Alli]

Is it true the teachers set out for an 11% increase and have since turned down the latest 12% offer?

[Boo Khaki]

9 minutes ago, Derry Alli said:

Is it true the teachers set out for an 11% increase and have since turned down the latest 12% offer?

Presumably the ones who don't teach arithmetic.

[Monkey Tennis]

12 minutes ago, Derry Alli said:

Is it true the teachers set out for an 11% increase and have since turned down the latest 12% offer?

Not one element of that is true.

[Gaz]

17 minutes ago, Derry Alli said:

Is it true the teachers set out for an 11% increase and have since turned down the latest 12% offer?

This is absolutely true, apart from the bit about setting out for an 11% increase and turning down a 12% offer.

[Derry Alli]

16 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

Presumably the ones who don't teach arithmetic.

I did think it was very strange. I was doing work at Inverurie campus and was told that a 7% backdated rise with a further 5% rise next month had been turned down. He said they wanted an 11% raise at the beginning.

[Todd_is_God]

2 hours ago, sophia said:

You should 

Starting to feel very much like your initial post in this conversation was baseless.

But whatever makes you happy

[Monkey Tennis]

8 hours ago, Derry Alli said:

I did think it was very strange. I was doing work at Inverurie campus and was told that a 7% backdated rise with a further 5% rise next month had been turned down. He said they wanted an 11% raise at the beginning.

They wanted 10% at the beginning, but that related only to the spell from last April to this, ie. the bit that's just received a 7% pay award.

By far, the biggest union, the EIS, has balloted members on it with the recommendation that they accept it.  The much smaller (in Scotland) NASUWT union, is also balloting members on it, but with no such recommendation.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Monkey Tennis

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I know a few teachers and we deal with them a fair bit in my line of work. Absolutely no danger I'd be touching that job with a 10 foot bargepole, considering the extra work they end up doing on their own time, arseholery from entitled parents and verbal/physical abuse from pupils for a start. f**k that.

The sheer irony of the Facebook maw brigade moaning about teachers and trade unions then whining about having to use paid holidays to look after their own children in the same breath is quite something as well. 

[Gaz]

I think that, for a 35 hour week, the current salary, and the proposed new one. Is a good one.

As I say though - for a 35 hour week.

I’ve been doing it for ten years now and the amount of ‘extra’ stuff that has been lumped on, particularly in the last three years since Covid, means that it is physically impossible to do the job in those 35 hours. Particularly if I want my lessons to be any different from “there’s a textbook, sit there and do 30 questions”.

I’m not a teacher who martyrs himself and does three hours a night and five hours at the weekend, but I’m probably doing about 45 hours a week while getting paid for 35. That wouldn’t be acceptable in any organisation with decent labour laws, teaching shouldn’t be any different.

[19QOS19]

31 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I think that, for a 35 hour week, the current salary, and the proposed new one. Is a good one.

As I say though - for a 35 hour week.

I’ve been doing it for ten years now and the amount of ‘extra’ stuff that has been lumped on, particularly in the last three years since Covid, means that it is physically impossible to do the job in those 35 hours. Particularly if I want my lessons to be any different from “there’s a textbook, sit there and do 30 questions”.

I’m not a teacher who martyrs himself and does three hours a night and five hours at the weekend, but I’m probably doing about 45 hours a week while getting paid for 35. That wouldn’t be acceptable in any organisation with decent labour laws, teaching shouldn’t be any different.

This is where I think the Teachers Union and the Nursing Union is missing a trick though. My Mrs is a nurse and obviously has her views on their latest offer but as I said to her - even if they gave you an extra £5000 a year you'd still be coming home moaning/ground down by the same stuff. 

I know money is at its most important just now but give me better working conditions over a small pay rise every single day. Even in my last job where I was making just a wee bit more than minimum wage the pay wasn't top of the "Why this job is shite" list. 

[Hedgecutter]

51 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I think that, for a 35 hour week, the current salary, and the proposed new one. Is a good one.

As I say though - for a 35 hour week.

I’ve been doing it for ten years now and the amount of ‘extra’ stuff that has been lumped on, particularly in the last three years since Covid, means that it is physically impossible to do the job in those 35 hours. Particularly if I want my lessons to be any different from “there’s a textbook, sit there and do 30 questions”.

I’m not a teacher who martyrs himself and does three hours a night and five hours at the weekend, but I’m probably doing about 45 hours a week while getting paid for 35. That wouldn’t be acceptable in any organisation with decent labour laws, teaching shouldn’t be any different.

Genuine question: how many hours would a teacher put into preparing for the new term ahead?

By a crude calculation, taking your own homework into consideration:

Teacher: 38 (weeks) x 45hrs = 1,710hrs p/a

Average punter with five weeks leave: 47 (weeks) x 40hrs = 1880hrs p/a

= difference of 170hrs, ie. 20 working days.

... so even with the unpaid overtime you state, minus a week's worth of training days that's still three weeks less work than most folk? (6% less)

Edited March 5, 2023 by Hedgecutter

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, Hedgecutter said:

Genuine question: how many hours would a teacher put into preparing for the new term ahead?

By a crude calculation, taking your own homework into consideration:

Teacher: 38 (weeks) x 45hrs = 1,710hrs p/a

Average punter with five weeks leave: 47 (weeks) x 40hrs = 1880hrs p/a

= difference of 170hrs, ie. 20 working days.

... so even with the unpaid overtime you state, minus a week's worth of training days that's still three weeks less work than most folk? (6% less)

It's 39 weeks.

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, Gaz said:

I think that, for a 35 hour week, the current salary, and the proposed new one. Is a good one.

As I say though - for a 35 hour week.

I’ve been doing it for ten years now and the amount of ‘extra’ stuff that has been lumped on, particularly in the last three years since Covid, means that it is physically impossible to do the job in those 35 hours. Particularly if I want my lessons to be any different from “there’s a textbook, sit there and do 30 questions”.

I’m not a teacher who martyrs himself and does three hours a night and five hours at the weekend, but I’m probably doing about 45 hours a week while getting paid for 35. That wouldn’t be acceptable in any organisation with decent labour laws, teaching shouldn’t be any different.

Presumably lesson prep etc would have taken more time in your first few years?