Do you remember the good old days before the Ghost Town?

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, Suspect Device said:

Herbert Love in King Street. Used to be a 'specialist' tobacconist (which sounds dodgy) but has dropped that from the sign outside the shop.

He doesn't still sell snuff, surely.

Why would you scrap that nice brown sign for the ugly black one?

[Suspect Device]

3 minutes ago, BFTD said:

He doesn't still sell snuff, surely.

Why would you scrap that nice brown sign for the ugly black one?

I've never been in. Maybe if he did sell special tobacco, I'd be interested.

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, Suspect Device said:

I've never been in. Maybe if he did sell special tobacco, I'd be interested.

They'll all come roaring back to life if Scotland ever decriminalises the waccy baccy.

Until Tesco and Asda take that over too, of course.

[Derry Alli]

26 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

It looks like Manifesto in Dundee may be closing.  They’ve set up crowdfunding to try as stay afloat.  Looking to raise £50k.

The problem shops like this face is when it first opened in the ‘80s in Whitehall Crescent it was a small scale clothing store selling designer brands most of us hadn’t heard of.  The only other way you found out about new brands was word of mouth or magazines such as GQ and Esquire.  The fact Manifesto was positioned just off the beaten track was another attraction I guess - a bit like Valentinos in Broughty Ferry.

Nowadays of course any new or obscure labels can be googled on your phone, checked out and purchased in minutes.  Added to that kids today can hop on a bus for nothing and shop in Edinburgh and Glasgow where they have far more options to chose from.  

Add to that since about 2010 most of the new lot who worked there thought they were a cut above. Absolutely nae patter.

They also fucked me over years ago so get it right up them. Hopefully Jazzy keeps his doors open right through their death.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Mr. Alli

[vikingTON]

58 minutes ago, hk blues said:

It's a bit like when the local boozer shuts It's doors and folk mourn it's passing - if enough folk drank in it it probably would have made it. City centres are dying because not enough people use them, plain and simple.

TLDR - You get the city centre you deserve.

Except it's not that 'plain and simple', because much of the town centre retail property in the UK is not actually owned by the businesses that use the space. It has been flogged to offshore companies that are not responsive to local use at all.

The UK economy has a huge problem with rent-seeking and town centre retail is not immune to that. 

[alta-pete]

56 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Falkirk will be fine when it finally gets that Primark the Facebook maws have been begging for.

I came to the area not long after Callendar Square first opened, and most of the outlets were empty. Someone told me it was new, so might need some time to take off, but they were getting pretty desperate with council hubs and the like last time I was there. Am I right that it replaced another shopping centre that had been similarly unpopular?  

I heard a while back there was some thought going towards demolishing Callendar Square and replacing it with housing, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Mid 80s and every town centre of a certain size was developing a covered shopping mall. The Council got involved with a JV to develop Callendar Square. 

In a moment of WTAF were they thinking? the Council then also granted a Planning Permission (PP) to develop the Howgate Centre. The Howgate Centre developers (being considerably more commercial and less bogged down by being involved with the Council in a JV) got on with things, built their scheme and hoovered up all the available retailers to take space.

Callendar Square was completed years late, anchored by only (I think) a BHS it just couldn’t find any retailers wanting representation in the town that weren’t already there. It has never been above 50% occupancy. 

Then the 90s turned up and out of town shopping took off. The Council granted PP for Central Retail Park and all the bulky goods retailers went there.

Then in the 00s they relaxed the PP to allow any retail on the park and it sucked the life out of the Howgate and the High Street. 

It happens all over but for the sheer transparency of how by toppling one domino it takes out a much larger one you could write a phd thesis on just how spectacularly both Central Region and then Falkirk Council have mismanaged their domain. 

[Jacksgranda]

13 hours ago, scottsdad said:

A PTTGOMN, but at the old Falkirk Bus station is a sign for a shop advertising itself as a "tabacconist" 

Maybe they're French...

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Suspect Device said:

Herbert Love in King Street. Used to be a 'specialist' tobacconist (which sounds dodgy) but has dropped that from the sign outside the shop.

He's also dropped the (Aberdeen).

[Leith Green]

On 24/12/2022 at 18:07, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

All the shops should be closed on Princes Street so that hotels can take over the place with casinos and strip bars and night clubs.

I think thats the plan...........

[Suspect Device]

1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

He's also dropped the (Aberdeen).

 

Herbert's got plans to go global.

[hk blues]

2 hours ago, virginton said:

Except it's not that 'plain and simple', because much of the town centre retail property in the UK is not actually owned by the businesses that use the space. It has been flogged to offshore companies that are not responsive to local use at all.

The UK economy has a huge problem with rent-seeking and town centre retail is not immune to that. 

But, if the city centres were thriving and had heavy footfall then the units would be owned by the retail stores themselves as they could afford to own their sites. In which case, the fire sale of city centre property would not take place.

Are you seriously suggesting folk prefer to pay rent rather than own? Bizarre take.

 

 

 

[Molotov]

2 hours ago, BFTD said:

They'll all come roaring back to life if Scotland ever decriminalises the waccy baccy.

 

When that happens surely we will see a resurgence in decent chocolate stores and proper Italian ice cream parlours. 

Introducing a new “green café” culture would help eliminate these American franchisees that really piss me off. I can’t believe how much these b*****ds charge for a coffee. 

Surely we can look to other countries to see the benefits in offering such a service to the community. 

[effeffsee_the2nd]

4 hours ago, alta-pete said:

Mid 80s and every town centre of a certain size was developing a covered shopping mall. The Council got involved with a JV to develop Callendar Square. 

In a moment of WTAF were they thinking? the Council then also granted a Planning Permission (PP) to develop the Howgate Centre. The Howgate Centre developers (being considerably more commercial and less bogged down by being involved with the Council in a JV) got on with things, built their scheme and hoovered up all the available retailers to take space.

Callendar Square was completed years late, anchored by only (I think) a BHS it just couldn’t find any retailers wanting representation in the town that weren’t already there. It has never been above 50% occupancy. 

Then the 90s turned up and out of town shopping took off. The Council granted PP for Central Retail Park and all the bulky goods retailers went there.

Then in the 00s they relaxed the PP to allow any retail on the park and it sucked the life out of the Howgate and the High Street. 

It happens all over but for the sheer transparency of how by toppling one domino it takes out a much larger one you could write a phd thesis on just how spectacularly both Central Region and then Falkirk Council have mismanaged their domain. 

I’m not old enough to remember its predecessor, but in the late 90s - mid 2000s it seemed to have half decent occupancy levels although only tk maxx and BHS were major chains. It was always very clearly the poor relation.

the howgate done far far better and had a solid 20 years until the 2008 crash where it & everything else pretty much died

 

its easy with hindsight to say it was madness, but for about 10 years all of the places you mentioned did boom on their own, 

you couldn’t have predicted online taking over was back in the 80s but perhaps as you say in the 2000s  someone could have said wait a minute here, all this growth will slow because we have new players in the market 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by effeffsee_the2nd

[TxRover]

5 hours ago, virginton said:

Except it's not that 'plain and simple', because much of the town centre retail property in the UK is not actually owned by the businesses that use the space. It has been flogged to offshore companies that are not responsive to local use at all.

The UK economy has a huge problem with rent-seeking and town centre retail is not immune to that. 

An interesting take on a self-correcting problem. They are responsive to their bottom line, and if no one is letting, they are losing money month over month…unless you are suggesting offshore companies buy High Street properties to farm losses?

[alta-pete]

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

An interesting take on a self-correcting problem. They are responsive to their bottom line, and if no one is letting, they are losing money month over month…unless you are suggesting offshore companies buy High Street properties to farm losses?

You are correct on both counts. UK held single asset properties are generally being let at whatever they can get for it.

Larger holdings (shopping malls and the like) have for a long time been disproportionately held by overseas entities with more favourable tax regimes. That however doesn’t guarantee survival - see East Kilbride and their Luxembourg registered owner. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-63670048.amp

[coprolite]

6 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

He's also dropped the (Aberdeen).

I reckon he's opened another shop called "Aberdeen Specialist" 

[Jacksgranda]

3 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I reckon he's opened another shop called "Aberdeen Specialist" 

You mean he's @VincentGuerin?

[coprolite]

4 hours ago, hk blues said:

 

Are you seriously suggesting folk prefer to pay rent rather than own? Bizarre take.

 

 

 

Lots of private equity and other "raider" type investors involved? Of course they'd rather rent. 

Commercial property returns are sub 10% p.a. so the owners don't want their capital tied up in that when the operating company can (potentially) give much bigger returns. 

[Moomintroll]

4 hours ago, hk blues said:

But, if the city centres were thriving and had heavy footfall then the units would be owned by the retail stores themselves as they could afford to own their sites. In which case, the fire sale of city centre property would not take place.

Are you seriously suggesting folk prefer to pay rent rather than own? Bizarre take.

 

 

 

He is now a Retail expert to add to his long list of specialities.

[The DA]

On 25/12/2022 at 11:47, pozbaird said:

Went to Dunfermline on a glorious summer day earlier this year. I don’t know the town too well, but had a fabulous day out. Parked up across from the bus station. First place I stumbled upon was an independent shop where the guy sells fitba’ stuff - mugs, scarves, all sorts. Scotland stuff, club stuff, even had a nice set of St Mirren crest stone coffee mug placemats.

Then we walked the length of the High Street down to the Abbey end. Think it’s the town hall building or something at the bottom that is a very attractive building, the one with the big tower? Got some good photos of it while cutting out the clutter surrounding it. Strolled into the renovated building beside the Abbey that houses a new ‘Blend’ coffee shop - Abbot House (I think it was called). Out the back, beautiful gardens and a great photo opp’ of the Abbey. Left there and walked around the Abbey, out and down into that glorious big park. Lots of stone staircases leading down to hidden bits of the park. Park was very well maintained, went into the greenhouses, and the plants and flowers surrounding it were magnificent.

Ended up back on the High Street, enjoyed a great burger in an independent place, went home. Superb.

I can enjoy a similar type of day out in Paisley. The Abbey, the cobbled streets behind the poundland High Street, and a dozen other places besides…if you look for them, and look beyond the vape shops. Falkirk too - Callendar Park in autumn is stunning. The Kelpies, the Wheel…

The battle for the shopping in High Streets has been lost, but ‘normal’ Scottish towns have hidden treasures, still. Mon’ the towns.

Aye, but did you buy anything?