The Very Meh Humza Yousaf Thread.

[Richey Edwards]

40 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

What are the alternatives to Yousaf and Continuinty Sturgeonism?  Alba?  Flags and marches?  Kate Forbes?

If the SNP do suffer a significant electoral defeat then the reaction to it from the SNP at all levels will be very interesting - I can see quite a few ardent Scottish nationalists having a complete meltdown if the SNP face setbacks, there will be pressure on the party to go in a more radical direction but would that be the right decision?  Who are the prospective leaders of different factions?

The SNP are far too one-dimensional to recover from an electoral defeat. Their next likely step is a drift towards Radical ShortbreadTin-ism.

[Billy Jean King]

https://www.cosla.gov.uk/news/2024/council-tax-principle-must-remain.

Announcement after the COSLA meeting today. Whose going to blink first. First LA budget announcements next week I think although a lot will ride on who is running the Council as to whether they ignore the freeze or not.

[Trogdor]

8 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

Looking like HY is being backed into a corner over his stupid uncosted Council Tax freeze announcement. COSLA meeting today and it appears a solid block of LAs are proposing 5% plus rises in what appears to be an attempt to force a bigger settlement in return for a freeze than what has been offered. They haven't got the money to offer more but a failure to do so looks like it will lead to the policy collapsing and rises going ahead. They have Yousaf by the balls here and it's all his own doing. This could be fatal for his leadership. 

Entirely self inflicted it has to be said. Policy making on the hoof rarely ends well.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

2 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Entirely self inflicted it has to be said. Policy making on the hoof rarely ends well.

I don't disagree but let's not pretend thst CoSLA aren't playing politics too.

[Left Back]

5 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

https://www.cosla.gov.uk/news/2024/council-tax-principle-must-remain.

Announcement after the COSLA meeting today. Whose going to blink first. First LA budget announcements next week I think although a lot will ride on who is running the Council as to whether they ignore the freeze or not.

SG won’t want to pass on the consequentials mentioned in that release.  They’ve got payrises to fund.

[Billy Jean King]

2 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Entirely self inflicted it has to be said. Policy making on the hoof rarely ends well.

Idiotic in the extreme. This is heading for a classic Mexican stand off. Councils know it's a "flagship" policy that he really can't afford (politically) to U turn on. The SG really only have two options, they find even more money they don't have to increase the settlement in return for the freeze or they bluff and hope the Council's will shit it and back down from a rise. It's all got to be settled quickly as budgets have to be set legally by early March at the latest. SNP administrations will toe the SG line but non SNP administrations will be sniffing blood here. Be interesting to hear what the SG think the mood of the public is over this. Yes it's I'll thought out and uncosted but your average Joe on average income or below probably won't see it as nuanced as that.

[Billy Jean King]

6 minutes ago, Left Back said:

SG won’t want to pass on the consequentials mentioned in that release.  They’ve got payrises to fund.

The pay rise announcement was a separate agenda item at today's meeting. That's next financial years claim they are referring to ie from April. Think only the GMB have shown their cards for next year and it's another mental rise they are looking for emboldened by this year's settlement. 

As it stands if they dont cough up more than the 144m quoted then I honestly think that with COSLAs blessing now, a fair few Councils will go for chunky rises. If enough go down that route it's hard to see how HY can survive given this is 100% his baby. 

[strichener]

10 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

Looking like HY is being backed into a corner over his stupid uncosted Council Tax freeze announcement. COSLA meeting today and it appears a solid block of LAs are proposing 5% plus rises in what appears to be an attempt to force a bigger settlement in return for a freeze than what has been offered. They haven't got the money to offer more but a failure to do so looks like it will lead to the policy collapsing and rises going ahead. They have Yousaf by the balls here and it's all his own doing. This could be fatal for his leadership. 

I think you misunderstand who has the power here.  Councils rely on the SG for the vast vast majority of their funding.  The Scottish government have in the past forced a tax freeze by telling councils that any increase in charges would be offset by a larger reduction in their block grant.  They can do this again if they want a freeze.

Edited February 9 by strichener

[D Angelo Barksdale]

4 hours ago, ICTChris said:

What are the alternatives to Yousaf and Continuinty Sturgeonism?  Alba?  Flags and marches?  Kate Forbes?

There's probably not any obvious, decent alternative, but some distancing from the carcrash of the last few years might at least stop or slow the decline.

[Billy Jean King]

On 09/02/2024 at 19:36, strichener said:

I think you misunderstand who has the power here.  Councils rely on the SG for the vast vast majority of their funding.  The Scottish government have in the past forced a tax freeze by telling councils that any increase in charges would be offset by a larger reduction in their block grant.  They can do this again if they want a freeze.

That will happen by default, it will be a case of whether they threaten to go further than withhold more than the proposed 5% settlement figure hence most LAs considering a rise are looking at figs above 5%.

Councils need to read the room here too. A huge swathe of the public don't think along the lines of "Council services need more money". When it comes to tax rises they tend to be unpopular in general. Some Councillors will see their trough in danger.

We will know soon enough this all has to play out in the next fortnight or so. First Council budget announcements due this week.

[welshbairn]

On 09/02/2024 at 21:41, D Angelo Barksdale said:

There's probably not any obvious, decent alternative, but some distancing from the carcrash of the last few years might at least stop or slow the decline.

There's not much that can be done until the police investigation is over.

[HTG]

On 09/02/2024 at 21:41, D Angelo Barksdale said:

There's probably not any obvious, decent alternative, but some distancing from the carcrash of the last few years might at least stop or slow the decline.

What does that mean though? There is no legal route to self-determination. The right to another referendum lies with the authority of a parliament where Scotland has c10% of available voting rights. That parliament has been asked to approve a referendum and has opted not to. The supreme court has determined that calling a referendum is not within the competence of a Scottish parliament. 

So, by what measure should any pro-independence Scottish government distance itself from the legal - but futile - route available to it? 

Winning an election on a ticket promising to go straight to negotiation in the event of victory is fine - if there is someone to negotiate with. There won't be. The UK govt refused point blank to get into any discussion on currency in the last referendum campaign. That left Scotland hanging on a key issue and was very effective. Scotland can start negotiating all it wants but Westminster will simply not get involved and will deem the entire process illegal. 

I can't see how Scotland can secure its independence legally under current circumstances. No UK govt will ever agree to a referendum again. The bollocks about a generation (of whatever length) is simply a means of kicking the matter into the long grass. Then they'll find any other excuse. 

That only leaves a non-legal approach - which they would be as well cracking on with to be honest. 

 

[vikingTON]

They could ditch the disastrous coalition with the Greens instead of wasting political capital on bottle recycling schemes for a start. 

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

On 09/02/2024 at 17:21, ICTChris said:

What are the alternatives to Yousaf and Continuinty Sturgeonism?  Alba?  Flags and marches?  Kate Forbes?

If the SNP do suffer a significant electoral defeat then the reaction to it from the SNP at all levels will be very interesting - I can see quite a few ardent Scottish nationalists having a complete meltdown if the SNP face setbacks, there will be pressure on the party to go in a more radical direction but would that be the right decision?  Who are the prospective leaders of different factions?

Forbes, ditching the Greens and disavowing the corrupt Murrell cabal would be their best bet.

It would lead to at least half-decent governance and possibly increase the support for independence, which is the only thing that could ever lead to it ever happening.

This won’t happen though, thankfully.

Edited February 13 by CarrbridgeSaintee

[D Angelo Barksdale]

2 hours ago, HTG said:

What does that mean though? There is no legal route to self-determination. The right to another referendum lies with the authority of a parliament where Scotland has c10% of available voting rights. That parliament has been asked to approve a referendum and has opted not to. The supreme court has determined that calling a referendum is not within the competence of a Scottish parliament. 

So, by what measure should any pro-independence Scottish government distance itself from the legal - but futile - route available to it? 

Winning an election on a ticket promising to go straight to negotiation in the event of victory is fine - if there is someone to negotiate with. There won't be. The UK govt refused point blank to get into any discussion on currency in the last referendum campaign. That left Scotland hanging on a key issue and was very effective. Scotland can start negotiating all it wants but Westminster will simply not get involved and will deem the entire process illegal. 

I can't see how Scotland can secure its independence legally under current circumstances. No UK govt will ever agree to a referendum again. The bollocks about a generation (of whatever length) is simply a means of kicking the matter into the long grass. Then they'll find any other excuse. 

That only leaves a non-legal approach - which they would be as well cracking on with to be honest. 

 

I wasn't necessarily talking about independence there, but the need to draw a line under the last few years that have seen their popularity decrease.

[J_Stewart]

On 13/02/2024 at 11:22, virginton said:

They could ditch the disastrous coalition with the Greens instead of wasting political capital on bottle recycling schemes for a start. 

How, exactly, would that address any of the below points regarding the constitutional deadlock that independence is in currently?

On 13/02/2024 at 11:16, HTG said:

What does that mean though? There is no legal route to self-determination. The right to another referendum lies with the authority of a parliament where Scotland has c10% of available voting rights. That parliament has been asked to approve a referendum and has opted not to. The supreme court has determined that calling a referendum is not within the competence of a Scottish parliament. 

So, by what measure should any pro-independence Scottish government distance itself from the legal - but futile - route available to it? 

Winning an election on a ticket promising to go straight to negotiation in the event of victory is fine - if there is someone to negotiate with. There won't be. The UK govt refused point blank to get into any discussion on currency in the last referendum campaign. That left Scotland hanging on a key issue and was very effective. Scotland can start negotiating all it wants but Westminster will simply not get involved and will deem the entire process illegal. 

I can't see how Scotland can secure its independence legally under current circumstances. No UK govt will ever agree to a referendum again. The bollocks about a generation (of whatever length) is simply a means of kicking the matter into the long grass. Then they'll find any other excuse. 

That only leaves a non-legal approach - which they would be as well cracking on with to be honest. 

 

 

[ScotiaNostra]

I dont see Humza producing anything thats going to inspire a new push towards independence and I dont see him being competent enough in the day to day running to show any particular sign of good governance. So as it stands its a slow dive going on for the SNP. That wont chnage as things are. Hes been in nearly a year now and it would be difficult to know what he even stands for and the lack of energy or inspiration is clear now.

 

Edited February 15 by ScotiaNostra

[Artie]

1 hour ago, ScotiaNostra said:

I dont see Humza producing anything thats going to inspire a new push towards independence and I dont see him being competent enough in the day to day running to show any particular sign of good governance. So as it stands its a slow dive going on for the SNP. That wont chnage as things are. Hes been in nearly a year now and it would be difficult to know what he even stands for and the lack of energy or inspiration is clear now.

 

SNP Highland councillor Karl Rosie whom represented Caithness has quit and gave something like that as one of the reasons.

He said he was "deeply troubled" by SNP policies which "often seem disproportionately focused on the central belt". He also said he felt disillusioned with the party's "incoherent independence strategy".

 

Independence not a priority any more under Humza?

[Todd_is_God]

5 hours ago, Artie said:

Independence not a priority any more under Humza?

Protesting about the struggles people are facing with the cost of living whilst actively chosing to increase that struggle is his current priority.

That and hiking taxes to pay for his pay rise settlements he used for political capital.

[vikingTON]

On 14/02/2024 at 12:54, J_Stewart said:

How, exactly, would that address any of the below points regarding the constitutional deadlock that independence is in currently?

 

The question was posed was how to stop the steady decline of SNP performance and popularity. That somebody else went off on one about constitutional deadlock is not my issue to solve.