J_Stewart Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 7 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: The other route is complete non-cooperation - stop playing by the rules at Westminster and disrupt as much as possible. and how does that progress towards Independence? Scotland has no real say on a UK level, no real power, and hasn't for decades, if at all. Non-cooperation there makes not the slightest bit of difference, and actually just makes things easier for the Tories and Labour as it reduces the number of MPs asking difficult questions and trying to hold the government to a degree of account. Constantly interrupting proceedings and being thrown out of the chamber would be a laugh, but how does it benefit the Independence cause? Not taking seats just feeds back in to the initial point, and I'm not sure that there's any data to suggest that it has benefitted Sinn Fein's cause. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orfc Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Get Salmond back He had the gift of persuading opposition politicians to do what he wanted. He got Cameron to agree to a referendum BIzzum woman just shouted at the opposition, no guile or persuasion, just screeching like a fucking smoke alarm Humza's just sort of where he is by accident because no one better is available 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 -5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Appearing on the Laura K show in the morning apparently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 On 18/01/2024 at 17:24, ICTChris said: What should they do to act upon it? What are the steps they should be taking? As far as I can see it, there are several avenues that would be open for pro-independence campaigners that are different to what the current Scottish government has done. - The de facto referendum: Declare in your campaign for the next Westminister or Holyrood election that this is a 'de facto' referendum on independence and when you win the most seats or pro-independence candidates get the most votes or whatever your test is, you say you are going to open negotiations for independence afterwards. - The 'wildcat' referendum: Declare your intention to hold a referendum on independence without agreement from Westminister. The Scottish Government would organise a nationwide poll and say that this was indyref2, if/when Yes wins then they start independence negotiations. - UDI: Simply declare independence without any further votes and start negotiations, or don't even bother with negotiations and start building a wall at the border probably. The issues with all of these are completely obvious and barely need stating - Scotland can only become independent via a process agreed with the UK government and that agreement is not going to be given. The specific set of circumstances that lead to the agreements to hold the 2014 independence referendum are not likely to happen again. The other option would be something akin to what Alba proposed before the 2021 Holyrood election - pack out the Scottish Parliament with pro-independence MSPs, have a national commission on independence, legal action, diplomatic pressure, public demonstrations etc. I honestly don't think that this approach would have widespread support in Scotland but what do I know. You missed out 'patiently staking out a claim to enhanced powers for Holyrood at every election - salami-slicing to the point where Westminster gets a polite letter in the post informing it that Scotland's gone'. Which is incidentally how the Irish Free State worked its way into a fully independent state. That the current Yousaf 'leadership' has driven itself into a completely useless cul-de-sac is nobody else's fault. He ran as a Continuity Sturgeon candidate after all - the demented refusal to separate the tactics to achieve independence from election rhetoric was part of his leadership pitch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTee Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 So. Those of us who want Independence (Self Governance is probably a better description). Who do we vote for. I've no choice but SNP. Oh well. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarto Mutiny Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 9 hours ago, GTee said: So. Those of us who want Independence (Self Governance is probably a better description). Who do we vote for. I've no choice but SNP. Oh well. And it doesn't matter how bad a job they are making of running Scotland in the meantime? We get the government we deserve, right enough 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 17 minutes ago, Sarto Mutiny said: And it doesn't matter how bad a job they are making of running Scotland in the meantime? We get the government we deserve, right enough Doing a stellar job according to Humza this morning and any issues are all the Tory’s fault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 15 hours ago, virginton said: You missed out 'patiently staking out a claim to enhanced powers for Holyrood at every election - salami-slicing to the point where Westminster gets a polite letter in the post informing it that Scotland's gone'. Good luck salami slicing enhanced powers from a government that refuses to devolve recycling glass bottles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotiaNostra Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 When I read some of these posts where SNP voters absolve the SNP of any blame for not taking advantage of the last 12 years and blandly repeatedly just blame the tories and westminister for everything and then says the scottish government and SNP have no power and Indy wont happen due to westminister. That probably makes me feel less like voting for the SNP as anything Labour or any other party could say, it makes me think the SNP is a completely wasted vote now for indy so why should I even take indy into consideration when voting now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotiaNostra Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) 15 hours ago, virginton said: You missed out 'patiently staking out a claim to enhanced powers for Holyrood at every election - salami-slicing to the point where Westminster gets a polite letter in the post informing it that Scotland's gone'. Which is incidentally how the Irish Free State worked its way into a fully independent state. That the current Yousaf 'leadership' has driven itself into a completely useless cul-de-sac is nobody else's fault. He ran as a Continuity Sturgeon candidate after all - the demented refusal to separate the tactics to achieve independence from election rhetoric was part of his leadership pitch. That would be my preferred way, right after the last indy vote we should have pushed for more powers and continued that through all the last 10 years and been prepared to politic to get those extra powers. We would be in a better position now in terms of running the country having those extra powers (had we got them) and closer to indy if we had also imo currently the snp is flater than a pancake and going nowhere fast Edited January 21 by ScotiaNostra 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artie Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 I see now there is talk about Independence for Wales. Seen that on the BBC. Leaving UK is viable says new report?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 4 hours ago, Artie said: I see now there is talk about Independence for Wales. Seen that on the BBC. Leaving UK is viable says new report?? More chance of Dundee winning the Scottish Cup than that happening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardle is Magic Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 On 19/01/2024 at 12:57, orfc said: Get Salmond back He had the gift of persuading opposition politicians to do what he wanted. He got Cameron to agree to a referendum I’d prefer incompetence to a creepy sex pest who touches women while they’re asleep tbh. To each their own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 17 hours ago, Artie said: I see now there is talk about Independence for Wales. Seen that on the BBC. Leaving UK is viable says new report?? No chance, they are basically just an extension to England pretending to be different because they sing in that weird language. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Looking like HY is being backed into a corner over his stupid uncosted Council Tax freeze announcement. COSLA meeting today and it appears a solid block of LAs are proposing 5% plus rises in what appears to be an attempt to force a bigger settlement in return for a freeze than what has been offered. They haven't got the money to offer more but a failure to do so looks like it will lead to the policy collapsing and rises going ahead. They have Yousaf by the balls here and it's all his own doing. This could be fatal for his leadership. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Getting gubbed at the forthcoming GE will surely be the most opportune moment to ditch Yousaf and 'continuity Sturgeon' and force some sort of reset in the party. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Useless hilariously offering to mediate the junior doctor pay dispute in England after handing out pay rises up here that the SG had to hike taxes to try and begin to afford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 7 hours ago, D Angelo Barksdale said: Getting gubbed at the forthcoming GE will surely be the most opportune moment to ditch Yousaf and 'continuity Sturgeon' and force some sort of reset in the party. What are the alternatives to Yousaf and Continuinty Sturgeonism? Alba? Flags and marches? Kate Forbes? If the SNP do suffer a significant electoral defeat then the reaction to it from the SNP at all levels will be very interesting - I can see quite a few ardent Scottish nationalists having a complete meltdown if the SNP face setbacks, there will be pressure on the party to go in a more radical direction but would that be the right decision? Who are the prospective leaders of different factions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 34 minutes ago, ICTChris said: What are the alternatives to Yousaf and Continuinty Sturgeonism? Alba? Flags and marches? Kate Forbes? If the SNP do suffer a significant electoral defeat then the reaction to it from the SNP at all levels will be very interesting - I can see quite a few ardent Scottish nationalists having a complete meltdown if the SNP face setbacks, there will be pressure on the party to go in a more radical direction but would that be the right decision? Who are the prospective leaders of different factions? You’d have to put Sandy Cromarty on suicide watch. Can’t tag him on my phone for some reason. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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