Nicola Sturgeon Arrested, Peter Murrell Charged

[ICTChris]

I don't think there will be another referendum in the UK again, or at least in the next 20-30 years (a generation?).

Considering the political impact of the EU and independence referendums, I don't think any major party is likely to put one forward again. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by ICTChris

[houston_bud]

1 hour ago, btb said:

Paradoxically if Starmer was politically savvy he might want to offer a second referendum in the next parliament which could kill off Independence rather than let the wheel turn.

Have to disagree. Whatever the rights and wrongs of another referendum offering a second referendum would be a terrible move from Starmer's point of view. 

Offering a referendum gives the Tories a lot of ammo, both in Scotland and the wider UK. It also gives the SNP a shot in the arm and gets them talking about what they want to talk about. It would also shift his focus from dealing with their manifesto commitments to focusing on campaigning for a referendum. The SNP will probably lose votes and seats at the next GE, for Starmer to then give them a referendum I don't think makes any sense politically.

[RuMoore]

Yeah it would be the opposite of savvy if Starmer were to offer a referendum from a position of power. 

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

I don't think there will be another referendum in the UK again, or at least in the next 20-30 years (a generation?).

Considering the political impact of the EU and independence referendums, I don't think any major party is likely to put one forward again. 

You don’t think the SNP is a ‘major party’?

[alta-pete]

We’re going O/T a wee bit here but for my ha’penny worth the Constitution has become a major binary issue. Up til now  you voted SNP or held your nose and voted Tory. 

That Labour have no clear or trustworthy position on it makes them lacking in appeal to either side and near wiped them out up here last time round. And to get into power at WM they need Scottish seats. Those will only come at the expense of the SNP. They will distance themselves as far away from the SNP as they can.

Remember Salmond’s billboard ad that had Milliband (I think it was) in his top pocket? 

No chance they’ll allow that narrative to develop this time round. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by alta-pete

[BFTD]

4 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

We’re going O/T a wee bit here but for my ha’penny worth the Constitution has become a major binary issue. Up til now  you voted SNP or held your nose and voted Tory. 

That Labour have no clear or trustworthy position on it makes them lacking in appeal to either side and near wiped them out up here last time round. And to get into power at WM they need Scottish seats. Those will only come at the expense of the SNP. They will distance themselves as far away from the SNP as they can.

Remember Salmond’s billboard ad that had Milliband (I think it was) in his top pocket? 

No chance they’ll allow that narrative to develop this time round. 

Their position's been pretty clear for decades, which is no to independence unless instructed otherwise from Westminster, like with every other policy. Would they even argue otherwise?

Let's not forget that they didn't get emptied in Scotland due to their stance on independence, but because people who'd been voting for them for decades were left wondering what good it did for them, and SLab had become incredibly arrogant about their place here - not a million miles from the "born to rule" attitude prevalent in Westminster. Some of them are still furious that the plebs dared to hand them their P45s.

I've been laughed at for this before, but I genuinely think Labour would rather another Conservative government than work with the SNP. It would label them as traitors in England, and the oldies in SLab absolutely hate the SNP beyond the reach of reason. It's the one issue that they might rebel against the head office over, for all the good it would do.

[lichtgilphead]

33 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

Remember Salmond’s billboard ad that had Milliband (I think it was) in his top pocket? 

Pedantic I know, but it was the Tories that produced that slightly racist advert, implying that Labour would be ruled from Scotland. 

Salmond had nothing to do with it, apart from being the subject (or victim, if you prefer)

[Johnny Martin]

Whenever a constitutional issue dominates, Labour lose out.

As the Scottish and EU referendums both fade into memory, it's no surprise to see Labour climbing in the polls again.

It pains me to say it, but we actually need a strong Labour in Scotland.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Johnny Martin

[Johnny Martin]

11 hours ago, AndyM said:

He's not savvy though and no Labour or Tory leader will offer any sort of referendum now.

After a UK election win in the next 14 months Scotland will be a low priority for Keir Starmer, he's more interested in keeping the votes of the red wall racists in the north of England and he will inherit one of the worst in trays of any incoming PM.  Despite the howls of the IndyNow brigade on Social Media this is a long game and they need to wake up to that fact.  

[D Angelo Barksdale]

We absolutely do not need the dead hand of Labourism managing the decline in Scotland.

[RuMoore]

43 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Their position's been pretty clear for decades, which is no to independence unless instructed otherwise from Westminster, like with every other policy. Would they even argue otherwise?

Let's not forget that they didn't get emptied in Scotland due to their stance on independence, but because people who'd been voting for them for decades were left wondering what good it did for them, and SLab had become incredibly arrogant about their place here - not a million miles from the "born to rule" attitude prevalent in Westminster. Some of them are still furious that the plebs dared to hand them their P45s.

I've been laughed at for this before, but I genuinely think Labour would rather another Conservative government than work with the SNP. It would label them as traitors in England, and the oldies in SLab absolutely hate the SNP beyond the reach of reason. It's the one issue that they might rebel against the head office over, for all the good it would do.

This is very true but at the same time to counter that a few people that support the SNP on here have openly said they'd prefer the Tories to win the next election to further their independence cause. 

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, RuMoore said:

This is very true but at the same time to counter that a few people that support the SNP on here have openly said they'd prefer the Tories to win the next election to further their independence cause. 

Can you provide some examples, Stormzy? Without them, and given your previous record on here, people are unlikely to believe you.

[GTee]

Labour l'll go for Alba next vote

[GTG_03]

10 hours ago, Johnny Martin said:

Whenever a constitutional issue dominates, Labour lose out.

As the Scottish and EU referendums both fade into memory, it's no surprise to see Labour climbing in the polls again.

It pains me to say it, but we actually need a strong Labour in Scotland.

Yeah they've done so much for Scotland when they've been in power. 

PFI is my personal favourite.

[Granny Danger]

13 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

Yeah they've done so much for Scotland when they've been in power. 

PFI is my personal favourite.

You better like it, you’re still paying for it!

[Empty It]

10 hours ago, RuMoore said:

This is very true but at the same time to counter that a few people that support the SNP on here have openly said they'd prefer the Tories to win the next election to further their independence cause. 

I've not seen anyone say this, plenty saying Labour are probably just as bad as the Tories, which is arguably true but not seen anyone wanting Tories to win to "further their independence cause".

[Billy Jean King]

11 hours ago, Johnny Martin said:

Whenever a constitutional issue dominates, Labour lose out.

As the Scottish and EU referendums both fade into memory, it's no surprise to see Labour climbing in the polls again.

It pains me to say it, but we actually need a strong Labour in Scotland.

Yet again folks proof positive. Two cheeks of the same arse.

[RuMoore]

1 hour ago, Empty It said:

I've not seen anyone say this, plenty saying Labour are probably just as bad as the Tories, which is arguably true but not seen anyone wanting Tories to win to "further their independence cause".

You clearly don't frequently read this section of the forum then, can't remember their name because there's a million similar usernames but one of the "highland" boomers that frequently posts about his hatred of Labour has clarified that position multiple times now with some other forgettable posters agreeing. 

[lichtgilphead]

1 minute ago, RuMoore said:

You clearly don't frequently read this section of the forum then, can't remember their name because there's a million similar usernames but one of the "highland" boomers that frequently posts about his hatred of Labour has clarified that position multiple times now with some other forgettable posters agreeing. 

It must be difficult to remember your own continually changing username, never mind anyone else's, Stormzy.

However, without proof of your ridiculous claims, I still don't believe you, and I doubt that many others will either.

[ScotiaNostra]

14 hours ago, BFTD said:

Their position's been pretty clear for decades, which is no to independence unless instructed otherwise from Westminster, like with every other policy. Would they even argue otherwise?

Let's not forget that they didn't get emptied in Scotland due to their stance on independence, but because people who'd been voting for them for decades were left wondering what good it did for them, and SLab had become incredibly arrogant about their place here - not a million miles from the "born to rule" attitude prevalent in Westminster. Some of them are still furious that the plebs dared to hand them their P45s.

I've been laughed at for this before, but I genuinely think Labour would rather another Conservative government than work with the SNP. It would label them as traitors in England, and the oldies in SLab absolutely hate the SNP beyond the reach of reason. It's the one issue that they might rebel against the head office over, for all the good it would do.

 

not a million miles from where we have started to find ourselves with the SNP now

Edited October 25, 2023 by ScotiaNostra