Nicola Sturgeon Arrested, Peter Murrell Charged

[BFTD]

18 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

not a million miles from where we have started to find ourselves with the SNP now

I knew someone would say that, but it's really not. Folk can say that the SNP have been, or now are, shite but everyone in that party should be well aware that their positions as elected officials can be revoked very quickly. They watched it happen to Labour, and they already had a wake-up call in 2017 when they had their arses handed to them temporarily by people not showing up at the polls.

Labour thought Scotland was theirs by right, and there was no alternative. The SNP should be well aware that their vote can collapse, and that a big chunk of their vote comes from natural Labour voters whose needs haven't been met by the party of the working man (lol).

Edited October 25, 2023 by BFTD
Ma heid's mince.

[GTG_03]

4 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

You better like it, you’re still paying for it!

My son will still be paying for it when he starts working. 

Honestly don't think I could bring myself to vote for slab. They'd need to make drastic changes which won't be happening anytime soon.

Might just draw a boaby on my ballot paper tbh

[Trogdor]

Spoilt ballot is the way to show all these fucking imposters what I think of them. I did it in the local elections and hurtling towards the same this time around.

The SNP are a simmering wreck that needs to go down before it goes up. I'll no be voting for the student politicians that are the Scottish Greens and I'll no be voting for the Gammons in Alba. As for ScoLab whilst they refuse to recognise this country's right to self-determination they won't get my vote. The Lib Dems are a non-entity and the Tories can get in the fucking sea!

What a sorry state right enough. Not often I agree with old man Granny but he's hit it on the nose here.

[sophia]

22 hours ago, RuMoore said:

This is very true but at the same time to counter that a few people that support the SNP on here have openly said they'd prefer the Tories to win the next election to further their independence cause. 

 

9 hours ago, RuMoore said:

You clearly don't frequently read this section of the forum then, can't remember their name because there's a million similar usernames but one of the "highland" boomers that frequently posts about his hatred of Labour has clarified that position multiple times now with some other forgettable posters agreeing. 

The classic backtracking of the fantasist.

Alastair Carmichael's reputation is forever tarnished for such a smear and he's a serious contributor.

[Alan Twelve]

14 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Spoilt ballot is the way to show all these fucking imposters what I think of them. I did it in the local elections and hurtling towards the same this time around.

The SNP are a simmering wreck that needs to go down before it goes up. I'll no be voting for the student politicians that are the Scottish Greens and I'll no be voting for the Gammons in Alba. As for ScoLab whilst they refuse to recognise this country's right to self-determination they won't get my vote. The Lib Dems are a non-entity and the Tories can get in the fucking sea!

What a sorry state right enough. Not often I agree with old man Granny but he's hit it on the nose here.

Not voting, or spoiling your paper would be fine if candidates had to win an overall majority of the available votes. But since that's not how it works, by not voting for at least the least-worst option you're making it more likely that we all end up with something worse than that. What point have you proved then?

[Trogdor]

38 minutes ago, Alan Twelve said:

Not voting, or spoiling your paper would be fine if candidates had to win an overall majority of the available votes. But since that's not how it works, by not voting for at least the least-worst option you're making it more likely that we all end up with something worse than that. What point have you proved then?

That's the very definition of insanity. I've voted for the least worst option for 20 years and it's only getting worse. I think I'll opt to abstain, thanks. 

Edit to add - There is also a difference between spoiling your ballot in a rejection of all candidates standing and not turning up to vote. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Trogdor

[Alan Twelve]

10 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

That's the very definition of insanity. I've voted for the least worst option for 20 years and it's only getting worse. I think I'll opt to abstain, thanks. 

Well unless you've been voting Tory, it's not your vote that's the problem, is it? In fact, the biggest triumph of the Tories, and the political right in general, is that they've convinced so many of the people who oppose them that it's not worth voting.

[BFTD]

There needs to be more spoilt ballots rather than people thinking, "nah, I'll just sit on my arse at home because they're all shite/the same/it's rigged anyway".

Unless, of course, all the non-voters genuinely would have voted for the winner, because they'll behave like you would have for the next five years anyway. First time there are a few thousand spoiled papers, you can be sure they'll all be trying to find out what you were looking for when the next election rolls around, rather than writing everyone off as too idle to be worth trying to win votes from.

[Wee-Bey]

You should always make an effort to draw a cock and balls rather than not turn up. 

Doesn't even have to be a work of art like  @throbber s efforts.

[BFTD]

4 minutes ago, Ziggy Sobotka said:

You should always make an effort to draw a cock and balls rather than not turn up. 

Doesn't even have to be a work of art like  @throbber s efforts.

Remember, don't stick your cock in the box, lest it's assumed that you like the recipient.

It's as true in politics as any other walk of life.

[houston_bud]

9 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Edit to add - There is also a difference between spoiling your ballot in a rejection of all candidates standing and not turning up to vote. 

There's a symbolism to it, but the reality is it is no different from not turning up. Nobody cares about spoilt ballots. The winner still wins, the losers still lose.

Save yourself the petrol (or the shoe leather) and stay at home.

I've spoiled my ballot once maybe twice (I forget). Maybe it makes us feel better but, ultimately, it achieves nothing.

[Rael Rover]

11 hours ago, BFTD said:

There needs to be more spoilt ballots rather than people thinking, "nah, I'll just sit on my arse at home because they're all shite/the same/it's rigged anyway".

Unless, of course, all the non-voters genuinely would have voted for the winner, because they'll behave like you would have for the next five years anyway. First time there are a few thousand spoiled papers, you can be sure they'll all be trying to find out what you were looking for when the next election rolls around, rather than writing everyone off as too idle to be worth trying to win votes from.

There should be a "None of the above" option on the ballot.

[GTG_03]

6 minutes ago, Rael Rover said:

There should be a "None of the above" option on the ballot.

A 'f*ck this' option

[Freedom Farter]

The problem with spoiled ballots is they can be the thin end of the wedge towards soiled ballots.

[Trogdor]

Voting for the least worst option should really be the strapline for our democracy.

[houston_bud]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

Voting for the least worst option should really be the strapline for our democracy.

This is probably true of most democracies though. I've got a couple of pals in France who can't stand Macron but had to vote for him against Le Pen. How many folk in the states think Biden is past it, but will likely have to vote for him to prevent another Trump presidency. In the Republic of Ireland there's essentially two centre right parties that can realistically form governments, which won't be to everyone's liking.

I don't know enough about other countries but I would wager that a lot of people around the world will have similar thoughts about voting for the least worst option. Maybe it's not realistic to expect to agree with everything a party stands for, or like all their candidates.  

I'd like to see the UK move to a more proportional system, I get the arguments that it can end up with extremists in parliament (and possibly even in government) but I think all the major parties are essentially made up of two or three parties. A more proportional system would allow them to split into smaller parties and get rid of the whip system for two massive parties. 

[BB_Bino]

On 24/10/2023 at 09:04, AndyM said:

He's not savvy though and no Labour or Tory leader will offer any sort of referendum now.

Totally agree, and why would they? They would be committing career suicide if they did. The only reason Cameron sanctioned referendum on Scotland and EU is because is become Yes and Leave were polling so low that it was almost seen as much of a dead cert that they would win, than one of the Old Firm winning the SPL. It was scarily close to be a Yes vote and we all know what happened with the EU referendum. With polls since being about 50/50, no PM in their right mind is going to sanction it, it's too close. The SNP know this (so do Alba) which is why they are looking at other ways to do it.  I'm a firm believer that if the polls were like this in 2014, then Cameron wouldn't have signed the papers in the first place. 

On 24/10/2023 at 19:43, BFTD said:

I've been laughed at for this before, but I genuinely think Labour would rather another Conservative government than work with the SNP. It would label them as traitors in England, and the oldies in SLab absolutely hate the SNP beyond the reach of reason. It's the one issue that they might rebel against the head office over, for all the good it would do.

I would agree with this, given a Tory minority government or a Labour/SNP coalition, I'm convinced Labour would would prefer the first option.

[houston_bud]

59 minutes ago, BB_Bino said:

Totally agree, and why would they? They would be committing career suicide if they did. 

Then surely not offering a referendum would mean he is being savvy?

[superbigal]

I heard Nicola passed her driving test.  Time to pop into the Polis compound and recover the boogie bus.

 

Was a classic episode with Arthur not realising he was "live" while the local voters got slated.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by superbigal

[Shipa]

3 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Voting for the least worst option should really be the strapline for our democracy.

And the Tories/Labour/Liberal seem to have taken this to heart.

The first time I was aware of negative campaigning was during the 2014 referendum - though it may have gone on before then, I was less politically aware - but it seems the norm now.

Rather than saying 'Vote for me, I'll do this for you' they say 'Vote for me, or they'll do that!'

Don't know what the alternative is, but it does make one question whether democracy, in its current form, is really the best way?