Shanner Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, MickGarvey said: Prove it. It's self evident for anyone who managed to stay conscious until the end of the post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MickGarvey Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Just now, Shanner said: It's self evident for anyone who managed to stay conscious until the end of the post. Thought that might be your answer. Strawman answer for a strawman argument apparently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Just now, MickGarvey said: Thought that might be your answer. Strawman answer for a strawman argument apparently. From this It's clear that you don't know what a straw man argument is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MickGarvey Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, Shanner said: From this It's clear that you don't know what a straw man argument is. In which part? The part where the topic is the South Challenge Cup or when someone on said topic highlights the requirement for an all in, non league trophy? Where is my fallacy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 What a National Cup can bring is exposure to a wider audience. A national trophy can and should be an end of season celebration for all non league fans to attend, not just fans of the 2 clubs. It needs to be held at Hampden on a weekend not some inaccessible out of town ground on a Friday night. It needs proper sponsorship and monetary incentive for the clubs. For the fans it must be an occasion; a celebration of football below the SPFL, not just another game of football. For a major sponsor to come on board, all league's below tier 4 need to be a united group, not this bickering and sniping we have. Why would a company want to be involved, what are the benefits for it? As a footnote whether we like it or not the SJC probably can't be that trophy. Simply because it will always be associated with juniors and not non-league. As for the SRCC it is a regional cup and should be promoted as such. Up to the final it is an exciting competition; the games I have seen have been entertaining and reasonably well attended. Again the final is kind of tagged on at the end of the season, almost being an inconvenience. This brave new pyramid needs to become more professional. Of the 4 league's below the Maginot Line, the least open appears to me as a supporter: the LL. Its comes across like some secret society from Assassins Creed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MickGarvey Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 7 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said: What a National Cup can bring is exposure to a wider audience. A national trophy can and should be an end of season celebration for all non league fans to attend, not just fans of the 2 clubs. It needs to be held at Hampden on a weekend not some inaccessible out of town ground on a Friday night. It needs proper sponsorship and monetary incentive for the clubs. For the fans it must be an occasion; a celebration of football below the SPFL, not just another game of football. For a major sponsor to come on board, all league's below tier 4 need to be a united group, not this bickering and sniping we have. Why would a company want to be involved, what are the benefits for it? As a footnote whether we like it or not the SJC probably can't be that trophy. Simply because it will always be associated with juniors and not non-league. As for the SRCC it is a regional cup and should be promoted as such. Up to the final it is an exciting competition; the games I have seen have been entertaining and reasonably well attended. Again the final is kind of tagged on at the end of the season, almost being an inconvenience. This brave new pyramid needs to become more professional. Of the 4 league's below the Maginot Line, the least open appears to me as a supporter: the LL. Its comes across like some secret society from Assassins Creed. Nail on the head. The argument has been "Pollok are coming back" so the competition is thriving. Cove Rangers, Kelty Hearts and Bonnyrigg Rose have moved on without as much as a glance. Strawman argument or valid discussion point? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 47 minutes ago, MickGarvey said: Nail on the head. The argument has been "Pollok are coming back" so the competition is thriving. Cove Rangers, Kelty Hearts and Bonnyrigg Rose have moved on without as much as a glance. Strawman argument or valid discussion point? Where has anyone said that? Quite the contrary in fact. Posters have expressed concern about them entering in a guest capacity rather than being full members. There's yer fallacy. Listen pal, I don't usually refer to myself in posts but you have named me specifically so I probably should provide an answer. I loved the Juniors as a group of clubs but was the first to admit that the admin and organisational skills of the SJFA was horrendous, embarrassing if you will. They needed a kick up the proverbial and got it. The mass move to WoSFL happened and we are where we are now. I genuinely don't have a problem with the SCC other than the fact that it is shoddily run and very poorly marketed. I was surprised that the SJC continued even after the move across but it did. This has really got on the nerves of the pro-pyramidati and they try to bring it down at any given opportunity. That's the only reason I go on about the SCC being bad. Believe me, it's tongue in cheek. The fixture man thinks there is room for both, the clubs have voted that there is room for both and we will see both being played for the next few years at least so that's where we are. As for your point on Ayr United, they would think twice about challenging any opinion coming from Talbot. There are still traces of the contents of their colons on the Beechwood turf from the last time they visited. In short it's all a bit of fun, Helen Lovejoy, lighten up!. You've even made me type a long post and I hate doing that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MickGarvey Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Happy for you to check back on Junior Cup thread. I would argue that its not a fallacy. As I said, I'm all in for a nationwide non league competition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowenan Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Merge the two cups. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 1 hour ago, MickGarvey said: Nail on the head. The argument has been "Pollok are coming back" so the competition is thriving. Cove Rangers, Kelty Hearts and Bonnyrigg Rose have moved on without as much as a glance. Strawman argument or valid discussion point? Has anyone seriously argued that it's thriving? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig fae the Vale Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 The non league national trophy idea is pie in the sky. The Highland League clubs aren't even remotely interested for starters. It may become possible somewhere down the line if attitudes change, but we're a long way away from it ever happening 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 30 minutes ago, MickGarvey said: Happy for you to check back on Junior Cup thread. I would argue that its not a fallacy. As I said, I'm all in for a nationwide non league competition. Saying that that's not a fallacy is another fallacy. You're playing a stormer so far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Just now, jimbaxters said: Saying that that's not a fallacy is another fallacy. You're playing a stormer so far. Should you not be away trawling through all the old threads to find him proof that he's not talking out his hoop? He's happy for you to do it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MickGarvey Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 14 minutes ago, Shanner said: Has anyone seriously argued that it's thriving? Check out your post on Saturday night.. "come on down Pollok". Again, didnt you use terms such as "THE PREMIER NON LEAGUE COMPETITION"? I would also argue that there is some encouragement at clubs flocking back to the SJC. For what it's worth its the clubs prerogative to compete for what they want when they want. 4 minutes ago, Craig fae the Vale said: The non league national trophy idea is pie in the sky. The Highland League clubs aren't even remotely interested for starters. It may become possible somewhere down the line if attitudes change, but we're a long way away from it ever happening The SFA in my opinion should intervene. The Highland League clubs are happy to take payment for license and participation in the Scottish Cup. I'm sure if it became a requirement for licensing then they would be quick to change position. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MickGarvey Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, Shanner said: Should you not be away trawling through all the old threads to find him proof that he's not talking out his hoop? He's happy for you to do it. On 24/06/2023 at 10:17, Shanner said: No reading all this pish so sorry if already mentioned. The irresistible attraction of NON-LEAGUE FOOTBALL'S PREMIER CUP COMPETITION has drawn another team back like a moth to the flame. Pollok FC come on down! Saved you the hassle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 1 minute ago, MickGarvey said: Saved you the hassle. A tongue in cheek but still objectively accurate post that doesn't make any mention of the word thriving? Is that definitely the post you meant to quote? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MickGarvey Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 11 minutes ago, Shanner said: A tongue in cheek but still objectively accurate post that doesn't make any mention of the word thriving? Is that definitely the post you meant to quote? Objectively accurate in what sense? The competition in 2017 had over 150 participants and in 2022 around 110? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 1 minute ago, MickGarvey said: Objectively accurate in what sense? The competition in 2017 had over 150 participants and in 2022 around 110? It is currently the biggest draw for fans in non league football of any cup at the level.It doesn't matter that it's on a downward trajectory by it own standards. Name a couple of reasonable metrics of success and it will be shown to be comfortably outperforming the SOS ( a competition I like btw). That's not to say it is will always be this way, I still think it's days are numbered and Tbh I'm quite surprised it is still in decent condition as a competition after the reputational battering it's taken in the last decade. I'm pretty sure that when it's day finally arrives the gradeist weirdos dancing on its grave won't honestly be able to say it's ever been replaced by something of equal or greater value. I can't honestly say I understand that attitude or what satisfaction people take from it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MickGarvey Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, Shanner said: It is currently the biggest draw for fans in non league football of any cup at the level.It doesn't matter that it's on a downward trajectory by it own standards. Name a couple of reasonable metrics of success and it will be shown to be comfortably outperforming the SOS ( a competition I like btw). That's not to say it is will always be this way, I still think it's days are numbered and Tbh I'm quite surprised it is still in decent condition as a competition after the reputational battering it's taken in the last decade. I'm pretty sure that when it's day finally arrives the gradeist weirdos dancing on its grave won't honestly be able to say it's ever been replaced by something of equal or greater value. I can't honestly say I understand that attitude or what satisfaction people take from it. I do not disagree with any of that. I would suggest the high crowds at cup finals aren't due to the competition but the fan bases of the clubs involved in the final. Would Spartans v Drumchapel in the SJCF still draw a crowd of 4000? I think half of that would be extremely kind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thejackdaw Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Can't help but think people are over thinking the reason that the south cup hasn't yet kicked on greatly and as to why it's not quite got the prestige yet even of a Scottish junior cup that's a poor shadow of its former self. The south cup is only in its infant years - maybe 4 years old and part of which was interrupted by covid, it's not going to go toe to toe with the Scottish junior cup( regardless of its current state) which is decade's old and is steeped in history, however with some fine tuning and a new name that actually explains itself better and with a good sponsor and prize then it really could easily be the number one trophy in non league Scotland in the next several years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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