SFA South Region Challenge Cup 2023-2024

[Shanner]

4 minutes ago, MickGarvey said:

I do not disagree with any of that. I would suggest the high crowds at cup finals aren't due to the competition but the fan bases of the clubs involved in the final.

Would Spartans v Drumchapel in the SJCF still draw a crowd of 4000? I think half of that would be extremely kind.

Dunno it's all speculation but I reckon Talbot v Bonnyrigg would have been at least 4x more than the 800 odds at Falkirk the season before. Same time and venue but just a different cup and it would make that difference.

I can only speak from the Talbot side of course but Bonnyrigg was rammed the last couple of times we went there in the junior cup before they left it. 

[Jamie92]

3 hours ago, Shanner said:

Have any clubs expressed this sentiment?

Yes, South and East clubs rejected the idea about renaming the south Challenge and having the “junior” name in it 2 seasons ago. South challenge junior cup sounds awful. SFA challenge trophy or something like that would work. 

[Craig fae the Vale]

5 minutes ago, Thejackdaw said:

Can't help but think people are over thinking the reason that the south cup hasn't yet kicked on greatly and as to why it's not quite got the prestige yet even of a  Scottish junior cup that's a poor shadow of its former self.  

 

The south cup is only in its infant years - maybe 4 years old  and part of which was interrupted by covid, it's not going to go toe to toe with the Scottish junior cup( regardless of its current state) which is decade's old and is steeped in history,   however with some fine tuning and a new name that actually explains itself better and with a good sponsor and prize then it really could easily be the number one trophy in non league Scotland  in the next several years.

The Cup has been running since 2007. 

The West of Scotland Football League teams joined up in 2020, but the Cup has been around a lot longer than 4 years

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Shanner said:

Dunno it's all speculation but I reckon Talbot v Bonnyrigg would have been at least 4x more than the 800 odds at Falkirk the season before. Same time and venue but just a different cup and it would make that difference.

Shanner from a Talbot perspective why was this Cup Final not as well supported as the SJC Final against Yoker. 

I would think that the Bonnyrigg game had greater appeal to a football fan. Does that suggest that the SJC Final attendees are not football fans? 

I really struggle with this. To me both games were worthy of good crowds as a trophy was on the table.

Is it purely down to no recognition of the SRCC as a cup worth winning to those outside the main core of support?

[glensmad]

There's no doubt that the SJC still holds an aura about it, despite its reduction in the number of teams and geographical imbalance.

Glencairn took 1400 fans to the final, that's the biggest following we've had at any match that I can remember since the 1975 final of the SJC. Our semi final v East Craigie (two clubs with not what you could call big supports) still had over 1000 in attendance.

Had we been playing Cumnock in the final of the South Challenge Cup, I doubt we would have had 200 fans in the stadium, never mind 1400.

I'm not involved in the organisation of the South Challenge Cup in any way, but there's no doubt that it needs an injection of interest and promotion to get the level of interest to anywhere near the SJC's pull.

[jimbaxters]

52 minutes ago, Thejackdaw said:

Can't help but think people are over thinking the reason that the south cup hasn't yet kicked on greatly and as to why it's not quite got the prestige yet even of a  Scottish junior cup that's a poor shadow of its former self.  

 

The south cup is only in its infant years - maybe 4 years old  and part of which was interrupted by covid, it's not going to go toe to toe with the Scottish junior cup( regardless of its current state) which is decade's old and is steeped in history,   however with some fine tuning and a new name that actually explains itself better and with a good sponsor and prize then it really could easily be the number one trophy in non league Scotland  in the next several years.

4 years? 

[PossilYM]

3 minutes ago, glensmad said:

There's no doubt that the SJC still holds an aura about it, despite its reduction in the number of teams and geographical imbalance.

Glencairn took 1400 fans to the final, that's the biggest following we've had at any match that I can remember since the 1975 final of the SJC. Our semi final v East Craigie (two clubs with not what you could call big supports) still had over 1000 in attendance.

Had we been playing Cumnock in the final of the South Challenge Cup, I doubt we would have had 200 fans in the stadium, never mind 1400.

I'm not involved in the organisation of the South Challenge Cup in any way, but there's no doubt that it needs an injection of interest and promotion to get the level of interest to anywhere near the SJC's pull.

You're might not be involved personally but the Wosfl is going by that dodgy advert for a mug to find sponsorship on a pay yourself gig.

[Thejackdaw]

12 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

4 years? 

Yup around 4 years with our West clubs involved in it that maybe should have read - had zero interest in it before then to be honest  and to the obvious extent I never even knew it existed.  

[PossilYM]

On 26/06/2023 at 10:03, glensmad said:

Yep definitely mentions the Wosfl in the dodgy advert.

[Shanner]

38 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said:

Shanner from a Talbot perspective why was this Cup Final not as well supported as the SJC Final against Yoker. 

I would think that the Bonnyrigg game had greater appeal to a football fan. Does that suggest that the SJC Final attendees are not football fans? 

I really struggle with this. To me both games were worthy of good crowds as a trophy was on the table.

Is it purely down to no recognition of the SRCC as a cup worth winning to those outside the main core of support?

It's a mystery to me mate. I was surprised at the Bonnyrigg crowd. I'd no idea what it would be like but it didn't seem to appeal to the occasional Talbot fans despite it producing a couple of decent gates and a bit of excitement in the earlier rounds and most folk you'd talk to would say it was the harder trophy to win on paper. What a damp squib it turned out to in the end!

I suppose we also had the Junior final around the same time and that's always going to be the main event in a place with Auchinlecks cup history, still moreso than the league I would guess.  If folk were picking and choosing there was only one winner.

[LongTimeLurker]

56 minutes ago, Craig fae the Vale said:

The Cup has been running since 2007. 

The West of Scotland Football League teams joined up in 2020, but the Cup has been around a lot longer than 4 years

It's the replacement for the South Qualifying Cup so it arguably has a history in senior grade terms that goes back to 1895:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Qualifying_Cup

http://sfha.org.uk/scottishcups.htm

Don't think the South Qualifying Cup was ever that big a deal compared to the North one but the HL clubs soon binned the North Challenge Cup.

 

 

[Marten]

2 hours ago, Jamie92 said:

Yes, South and East clubs rejected the idea about renaming the south Challenge and having the “junior” name in it 2 seasons ago. South challenge junior cup sounds awful. SFA challenge trophy or something like that would work. 

Merging the South Challenge Cup & Junior cup, inviting clubs in the Highland League & North Caledonian League (up to them whether or not they will take it but can at least offer them) & re-name it SFA Challenge Trophy or so, with the SFA running it, showpiece final at Hampden & a decent payment for travel costs would be great & doable. But the old divide is an issue, not to mention the fact that the SFA doesn't give a f*ck about this level of football...

[Spyro]

6 minutes ago, Marten said:

Merging the South Challenge Cup & Junior cup, inviting clubs in the Highland League & North Caledonian League (up to them whether or not they will take it but can at least offer them) & re-name it SFA Challenge Trophy or so, with the SFA running it, showpiece final at Hampden & a decent payment for travel costs would be great & doable. But the old divide is an issue, not to mention the fact that the SFA doesn't give a f*ck about this level of football...

It doesn't help there's members of the WoS board who are actively promoting a rival competition while completly ignoring the SCC, they can't even be bothered to update the cup-tied players list if last season’s fiasco is anything to go by 

[glensmad]

5 hours ago, Spyro said:

It doesn't help there's members of the WoS board who are actively promoting a rival competition while completly ignoring the SCC, they can't even be bothered to update the cup-tied players list if last season’s fiasco is anything to go by 

I'm not aware of the existence of a "cup-tied players list".

Edited June 27, 2023 by glensmad

[Kennie]

4 hours ago, Spyro said:

It doesn't help there's members of the WoS board who are actively promoting a rival competition while completly ignoring the SCC, they can't even be bothered to update the cup-tied players list if last season’s fiasco is anything to go by 

If that's a pop at me, then go ahead, fill yer boots.

I am involved in the administration of both the SRCC and the SJC. I don't believe that they should be considered as 'Rival Competitions'.

I believe that there's room for both cups. They operate separately and have different formats.

Time to quit the squabbling and get on with it.

And to prove my point - West of Scotland Football League - News (wosfl.co.uk)

Who do you think published this on the WoSFL website and promoted it here?

Edited June 27, 2023 by Kennie

[Park the Buffs]

You say there’s room for both tournaments Kennie and technically I suppose you’re right. The problem somebody like Talbot will have is if they have a good cup season (and they usually do) they will be playing league games Monday, Wednesday and Saturday for 2 months at the season end. This in all probability will scupper their chances of league success. The way forward for me is all teams in the top league have floodlights and midweek league games are played throughout the season so that at any stage all the teams in the top league have played the same number of games.

[jimbaxters]

6 minutes ago, Park the Buffs said:

You say there’s room for both tournaments Kennie and technically I suppose you’re right. The problem somebody like Talbot will have is if they have a good cup season (and they usually do) they will be playing league games Monday, Wednesday and Saturday for 2 months at the season end. This in all probability will scupper their chances of league success. The way forward for me is all teams in the top league have floodlights and midweek league games are played throughout the season so that at any stage all the teams in the top league have played the same number of games.

So it wouldn't really be a pyramid then?

[Guest MickGarvey]

19 hours ago, glensmad said:

I'm not involved in the organisation of the South Challenge Cup in any way, but there's no doubt that it needs an injection of interest and promotion to get the level of interest to anywhere near the SJC's pull.

Surely that is part of the remit of the WoSFL committee?

Although on second thoughts, the individual running that account couldnt wait to congratulate one half of the ugly sisters on their recent league title win. That has nothing to do with the WoSFL.

[PossilYM]

2 hours ago, Park the Buffs said:

You say there’s room for both tournaments Kennie and technically I suppose you’re right. The problem somebody like Talbot will have is if they have a good cup season (and they usually do) they will be playing league games Monday, Wednesday and Saturday for 2 months at the season end. This in all probability will scupper their chances of league success. The way forward for me is all teams in the top league have floodlights and midweek league games are played throughout the season so that at any stage all the teams in the top league have played the same number of games.

Looks like floodlights is the way forward.

[glensmad]

1 hour ago, MickGarvey said:

Surely that is part of the remit of the WoSFL committee?

Although on second thoughts, the individual running that account couldnt wait to congratulate one half of the ugly sisters on their recent league title win. That has nothing to do with the WoSFL.

The SRCC is organised by a committee made up of representatives of each of the four leagues involved. I am not one of those representatives. The competition is administered by a representative of the SoSFL.