SFA South Region Challenge Cup 2023-2024

[glensmad]

6 minutes ago, MickGarvey said:

I don't think asking the question why the Official West of Scotland twitter handle actively promotes the SJC which does not serve all its members but does not treat the SRCC which does serve all its members with the same promotion should be frowned upon. If I was involved at a club who did not compete in the SJC I would be asking questions as to why we are jumping through hoops for a competition which does not serve all of its members.

I recognise that the person who runs the account is most likely to be a volunteer, but if you can do it for one competition, you can do it for another. If not, you just solely focus on League matters to avoid any ambiguity.

I don't buy this "we arent provided the information" nonsense. The information must've been circulated somewhere as clubs individually could post "we are number XX in today's draw" with pictures to support. I assume Hibs will need to wait until after the UEFA Conferences League qualification draw to find out the relevant information by the logic displayed previously? Posting the draw on the website afterwards is an afterthought. Especially when we have a video promoting the big countdown to the SJC draw. To avoid any doubt, no one is asking for a video for each individual draw. Maybe just a little bit more promotion.

It isn't a good look.

Kennie was directly involved in the administration of the SJC draw, so he had the team numbers. Kennie was not directly involved in the administration of the SRCC draw, so he did not have the team numbers prior to the draw being made. The team numbers were circulated to the competing clubs by email prior to the draw, however Kennie is not a member club and was not given that information. That will explain why the draw numbers for the SRCC were not shared on the WoSFL social media platforms in the same way as the SJC numbers were.

I hope that is helpful.

[Guest MickGarvey]

2 minutes ago, glensmad said:

Kennie was directly involved in the administration of the SJC draw, so he had the team numbers. Kennie was not directly involved in the administration of the SRCC draw, so he did not have the team numbers prior to the draw being made. The team numbers were circulated to the competing clubs by email prior to the draw, however Kennie is not a member club and was not given that information. That will explain why the draw numbers for the SRCC were not shared on the WoSFL social media platforms in the same way as the SJC numbers were.

I hope that is helpful.

Do you and Kennie not talk? Assuming that you are an office bearer for your club and the WoSFL?

"Kennie, FYI, here is the draw information for SRCC to be circulated on our social media platforms"

[glensmad]

14 minutes ago, MickGarvey said:

Do you and Kennie not talk? Assuming that you are an office bearer for your club and the WoSFL?

"Kennie, FYI, here is the draw information for SRCC to be circulated on our social media platforms"

Nah, he doesn't like me, you can tell that from the fixtures he gives my club. 

For the record, I am an Office Bearer for my club, but not for the WoSFL.

Edited June 30, 2023 by glensmad

[jimbaxters]

8 minutes ago, MickGarvey said:

Do you and Kennie not talk? Assuming that you are an office bearer for your club and the WoSFL?

"Kennie, FYI, here is the draw information for SRCC to be circulated on our social media platforms"

[Guest]

Just now, jimbaxters said:

could you no find a gif with a bone?

To be fair to @MickGarvey it can appear to an outsider that the WOSFL are actively promoting an unaffiliated competition in favour of one that the WOSFL is fully affiliated to. That's what I'm taking from his many posts on it.

The above statement in no way represent my thoughts on the discussion. I have no coherent thoughts on this topic at hand.

And before jb chips in. Yes, I have no coherent thoughts on any topic as witnessed by my contributions.

[Kennie]

1 hour ago, MickGarvey said:

I don't think asking the question why the Official West of Scotland twitter handle actively promotes the SJC which does not serve all its members but does not treat the SRCC which does serve all its members with the same promotion should be frowned upon. If I was involved at a club who did not compete in the SJC I would be asking questions as to why we are jumping through hoops for a competition which does not serve all of its members.

I recognise that the person who runs the account is most likely to be a volunteer, but if you can do it for one competition, you can do it for another. If not, you just solely focus on League matters to avoid any ambiguity.

I don't buy this "we arent provided the information" nonsense. The information must've been circulated somewhere as clubs individually could post "we are number XX in today's draw" with pictures to support. I assume Hibs will need to wait until after the UEFA Conferences League qualification draw to find out the relevant information by the logic displayed previously? Posting the draw on the website afterwards is an afterthought. Especially when we have a video promoting the big countdown to the SJC draw. To avoid any doubt, no one is asking for a video for each individual draw. Maybe just a little bit more promotion.

It isn't a good look.

The WoSFL consists of 80 member clubs. 56 of those members have chosen to participate in the SJC. This number also makes up 50% of the total entrants to the SJC.

For the SRCC, all 80 members participate in it. This is just short of the 50% of the 163 entrants.

We use various platforms to supply news and information to all members and their fans regardless of their interest in the specific item. The SJFA and the SRCC Committee use different Media Teams to produce Media items. We use whatever we get provided with regardless of who it's from. We do this, not only to provide news, but also to provide content that drives traffic to our media outlets. This in turn provides data that we can use in marketing our product. So, why would we not promote the SRCC?

You are correct when you say that the information in regards to the SRCC was circulated. It was circulated to the clubs by the competition Secretary. That is how the individual clubs were able to post "we are number XX in today's draw". However, it is then up to the relevant Media Team to put something together for us to use in any promotion of the cup. It is an outside organisation that runs this cup, just as the SJC is also run by an outside organisation. I am not involved in the Media Team for the SRCC, but give me something and I will use it.

I like the Junior Cup and always have, I don't hide that fact. But I am not of the same mind as some others that believe it's a showdown between the SJC and the SRCC. I believe it's time to put that idea firmly in the past and work together to allow both cups to take their place in the Football Calendar. This is not the first time I've said it and this is not the only place where I have said it.

Now, people may choose to 'buy it' or not 'buy it', but that's their choice.

Asking the same question again after every time you're given an answer, will not change the answer.

[Guest MickGarvey]

15 minutes ago, Kennie said:

The WoSFL consists of 80 member clubs. 56 of those members have chosen to participate in the SJC. This number also makes up 50% of the total entrants to the SJC.

For the SRCC, all 80 members participate in it. This is just short of the 50% of the 163 entrants.

We use various platforms to supply news and information to all members and their fans regardless of their interest in the specific item. The SJFA and the SRCC Committee use different Media Teams to produce Media items. We use whatever we get provided with regardless of who it's from. We do this, not only to provide news, but also to provide content that drives traffic to our media outlets. This in turn provides data that we can use in marketing our product. So, why would we not promote the SRCC?

You are correct when you say that the information in regards to the SRCC was circulated. It was circulated to the clubs by the competition Secretary. That is how the individual clubs were able to post "we are number XX in today's draw". However, it is then up to the relevant Media Team to put something together for us to use in any promotion of the cup. It is an outside organisation that runs this cup, just as the SJC is also run by an outside organisation. I am not involved in the Media Team for the SRCC, but give me something and I will use it.

I like the Junior Cup and always have, I don't hide that fact. But I am not of the same mind as some others that believe it's a showdown between the SJC and the SRCC. I believe it's time to put that idea firmly in the past and work together to allow both cups to take their place in the Football Calendar. This is not the first time I've said it and this is not the only place where I have said it.

Now, people may choose to 'buy it' or not 'buy it', but that's their choice.

Asking the same question again after every time you're given an answer, will not change the answer.

I have to be honest. Had you articulated your point like you have, we may have not been where we are.

I dont think percentage of participants of a competition comes into play if I'm honest, and if you want to adopt that logic, then 100% of WoSFL participants are in the SRCC.

Why would the competition secretary not involve the WoSFL executive committee with the information whereby 100% of its members participate in? That must be grounds for concern no? Or is what is promoted very selective? The Official WoSFL hasnt found difficulty posting pictures previously.

FOOTNOTE:

I accept your apology for your insult yesterday. It was very abusive and offensive. I understand you can be frustrated, especially when someone puts you in a position highlighting something that a lot of West fans see whether they wish to admit it or not.

[Kennie]

5 minutes ago, MickGarvey said:

I have to be honest. Had you articulated your point like you have, we may have not been where we are.

I dont think percentage of participants of a competition comes into play if I'm honest, and if you want to adopt that logic, then 100% of WoSFL participants are in the SRCC.

Why would the competition secretary not involve the WoSFL executive committee with the information whereby 100% of its members participate in? That must be grounds for concern no? Or is what is promoted very selective? The Official WoSFL hasnt found difficulty posting pictures previously.

FOOTNOTE:

I accept your apology for your insult yesterday. It was very abusive and offensive. I understand you can be frustrated, especially when someone puts you in a position highlighting something that a lot of West fans see whether they wish to admit it or not.

It's still the same answer, just with different words.

Just as you still question that answer with different words.

[Shanner]

What are Michael Jackson's pronouns?

 

Spoiler

Hee-hee!

 

[FairWeatherFan]

4 hours ago, Kennie said:

I like the Junior Cup and always have, I don't hide that fact. But I am not of the same mind as some others that believe it's a showdown between the SJC and the SRCC. I believe it's time to put that idea firmly in the past and work together to allow both cups to take their place in the Football Calendar. This is not the first time I've said it and this is not the only place where I have said it.

Probably hear about it more than most since the WoSFL is the only pyramid out of the eight that has to accomodate both. The small handful of EoSFL clubs having to sort it out amongst themselves for the most part, which has led to withdrawals from the SJC.

As there's going to be changes year to year it's not going to be a talking point that goes away.

 

[Shannon]

It would be better to have a premier non league tournament with the prestige, fan engagement and prize money as Junior Cup but with all tier 6 teams and also Lowland League & Highland League () involved too but unfortunately it won't happen unless SJFA can't get volunteers to run their organisation in the future and it's disbanded.

I am okay with 2 cups to play for as gives teams like mine much more to play for over the season especially in Premier as so hard to win or even challenge for the title for likes of ourselves at Meadow, Largs, Cumnock, Arthurlie, Rob Roy and others that cups gives you something else to look forward to - see Cumnock and Rutherglen last season & when both weren't going for the league / promotion and looked unlikely to be relegated. Also the £20,000 prize money for winning plus gate receipts will no doubt have helped Glencairn & Cumnock in preparing for this season.

[Shanner]

40 minutes ago, Shannon said:

It would be better to have a premier non league tournament with the prestige, fan engagement and prize money as Junior Cup but with all tier 6 teams and also Lowland League & Highland League () involved too but unfortunately it won't happen unless SJFA can't get volunteers to run their organisation in the future and it's disbanded.

I am okay with 2 cups to play for as gives teams like mine much more to play for over the season especially in Premier as so hard to win or even challenge for the title for likes of ourselves at Meadow, Largs, Cumnock, Arthurlie, Rob Roy and others that cups gives you something else to look forward to - see Cumnock and Rutherglen last season & when both weren't going for the league / promotion and looked unlikely to be relegated. Also the £20,000 prize money for winning plus gate receipts will no doubt have helped Glencairn & Cumnock in preparing for this season.

The money is the big thing for me.

If the cup goes then that money is lost to the non-league game; an outcome which is turkeys-voting-for-Christmas level stuff. 

 

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, Shannon said:

It would be better to have a premier non league tournament with the prestige, fan engagement and prize money as Junior Cup but with all tier 6 teams and also Lowland League & Highland League () involved too but unfortunately it won't happen unless SJFA can't get volunteers to run their organisation in the future and it's disbanded.

Also the £20,000 prize money for winning plus gate receipts will no doubt have helped Glencairn & Cumnock in preparing for this season.

It wasn't 20k according to last season's constitution, it was a £12k guarantee from the SJFA for each finalist. Given the 4,034 crowd @ £10 ticket (let's assume half were £5 concessions) then the gate income was £30,000 so enough to cover the £24k. Which means the SJFA wouldn't have needed to dip into their bank account other than to pay the ground rental and other costs (above the £6k left over).

There was news of a "prize money" increase before the final, but no confirmation yet, and it could just be a guarantee rather than actual prize money - so the SJFA may not have to pay out in many cases where there are good crowds.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sjfa-set-ramp-up-junior-30106064

The proposed change to the prize pot will also see the runner-up banking £10,000, losing semi-finalists £5000, losing quarter finalists £1000 and £500 to each of the teams knocked out in the last 16 plus £100 for those going out in the last 32.

32 minutes ago, Shanner said:

The money is the big thing for me.

If the cup goes then that money is lost to the non-league game; an outcome which is turkeys-voting-for-Christmas level stuff. 

At the moment neither competition has a sponsor, so money would be lost only if the SJFA folded and didn't put their finances back into the game.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Ginaro

[GNU_Linux]

Craigmark, Harthill & BSC with the standout results of the round overcoming higher tier opposition. Honorable mentions to Ardeer, Gartcairn & Finnart who ran teams for a higher tier close.

Edited August 19, 2023 by GNU_Linux

[Cairn Cheerleader]

Just curious but do clubs have the option not to participate in this south cup each season? 

[Craig fae the Vale]

1 minute ago, Cairn Cheerleader said:

Just curious but do clubs have the option not to participate in this south cup each season? 

No, its a mandatory competition. 

[Cairn Cheerleader]

I don't see why clubs who maybe don't want to play in it could not go into the central demolition cup I think it's called that teams who don't want to play in the junior cup enter. South challenge in my opinion is a bit of a waste of time.

[bc57]

8 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:

Craigmark, Harthill & BSC with the standout results of the round overcoming higher tier opposition. Honorable mentions to Ardeer, Gartcairn & Finnart who ran teams for a higher tier close.

As did Lanark

[glensmad]

9 hours ago, Cairn Cheerleader said:

I don't see why clubs who maybe don't want to play in it could not go into the central demolition cup I think it's called that teams who don't want to play in the junior cup enter. South challenge in my opinion is a bit of a waste of time.

The Strathclyde Demolition Cup is run by the WoSFL and is only open to WoSFL teams who are not members of the Scottish FA or the Scottish Junior FA. It is a mandatory competition for those clubs, they don't choose to play in it in preference to the Scottish Junior Cup. The only choice available to WoSFL clubs is whether to play in the Scottish Junior Cup or not.

The South Region Challenge Cup is for teams from all leagues from tier 5 downwards, i.e. Lowland League, WoSFL, EoSFL and SoSFL.

Your suggestion is not a possibility.

[Cairn Cheerleader]

On 02/07/2023 at 21:08, Ginaro said:

It wasn't 20k according to last season's constitution, it was a £12k guarantee from the SJFA for each finalist. Given the 4,034 crowd @ £10 ticket (let's assume half were £5 concessions) then the gate income was £30,000 so enough to cover the £24k. Which means the SJFA wouldn't have needed to dip into their bank account other than to pay the ground rental and other costs (above the £6k left over).

There was news of a "prize money" increase before the final, but no confirmation yet, and it could just be a guarantee rather than actual prize money - so the SJFA may not have to pay out in many cases where there are good crowds.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sjfa-set-ramp-up-junior-30106064

The proposed change to the prize pot will also see the runner-up banking £10,000, losing semi-finalists £5000, losing quarter finalists £1000 and £500 to each of the teams knocked out in the last 16 plus £100 for those going out in the last 32.

At the moment neither competition has a sponsor, so money would be lost only if the SJFA folded and didn't put their finances back into the game.

The Scottish Junior cup has 2 main sponsors this year with Clydebuilt and only sport I believe. 

last season the semi finalist also got 5k each and finalist 12.5 each although the winner may have got an extra 5k

this season the money is as follows....
 

Winner £20k
Finalist £10k
Losing semi £5k
Losing 1/4 £2k
Losing last 16 £250
Losing last 32 £100

All games to the including 1/4 finals get an equal share of the gate after officials paid and 15% Sjfa