SFA South Region Challenge Cup 2023-2024

[Shanner]

It's only regionalised for a couple of rounds and some teams get a bye through one of those. If folk want a day out in Kintyre then getting a citylink bus is easier than restructuring a football tournament in the hope you get a draw that suits you. 

There is also a perfectly good longstanding, national non League trophy that I can think of that gives you an open draw from the get go if that is really something you yearn for.  You know the one...

[GNU_Linux]

Gonnae be honest my dislike of the regional early rounds is it reduces the chance of Vale Of Leithen vs Vale Of Leven & Royal Albert vs Hawick Royal Albert.

[Sergeant Wilson]

36 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Gonnae be honest my dislike of the regional early rounds is it reduces the chance of Vale Of Leithen vs Vale Of Leven & Royal Albert vs Hawick Royal Albert.

The winners to play Harthill Royal.

[Thejackdaw]

Perfectly good longstanding non league trophy aye no bother 

Regardless of cup final crowds the Scottish junior cup is dying on its arse ( only my opinion of course, before there's any tantrums) 

[Shanner]

This trophy appears to be the choice of emotionally fragile north Ayrshire oddballs (only my opinion before anyone starts sending me late night abusive messages)

Edited June 27, 2023 by Shanner

[Guest]

Quite sad all this my cups better than your cup.

Thought we are all here for the football. So because you prefer the SJC over the SRCC and vice versa. You do all you can to diss the other. There is room for both trophies to grow.

One is regional and the other is national. They should not be competing against each other for our affections.

Just My Opinion Of Course.

[FairWeatherFan]

18 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said:

Quite sad all this my cups better than your cup.

Thought we are all here for the football. So because you prefer the SJC over the SRCC and vice versa. You do all you can to diss the other. There is room for both trophies to grow.

One is regional and the other is national. They should not be competing against each other for our affections.

Just My Opinion Of Course.

There isn't really. The SJC is dwindling from its past glories and arguably the SCC is at best making up the difference.

They shouldn't be competing against each other. As there should only be the one 100+ inter-league cup for non-league teams.

Competing for the same type of sponsors, and twice as many weekends being taken up by cup football instead of league fixtures isn't helping anyone.

[Pyramid Watcher]

The SJFA have the money to make this an attractive all in Cup, and they have offered a “olive branch” this year by opening up the SJC to non members. Surely it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that the organisations can get together and work something out.

[LongTimeLurker]

7 minutes ago, Pyramid Watcher said:

...Surely it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that the organisations can get together and work something out.

It would be nice to think so but you only have to look at some of what gets posted on here to realise how much tribalism there still is over the junior vs senior thing and how some ex-junior people linked to EoS clubs are still in zeal of the convert mode where anything linked to the SJFA is concerned. Could take a while for this to get sorted unfortunately.

[Ginaro]

22 minutes ago, Pyramid Watcher said:

The SJFA have the money to make this an attractive all in Cup, and they have offered a “olive branch” this year by opening up the SJC to non members. Surely it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that the organisations can get together and work something out.

This is in fact the third season it has been open to non-SJFA tier 6+ clubs (since 2021-22).

[Pyramid Watcher]

2 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

This is in fact the third season it has been open to non-SJFA tier 6+ clubs (since 2021-22).

Apologies, wasn’t aware of that. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There isn't really. The SJC is dwindling from its past glories and arguably the SCC is at best making up the difference.

They shouldn't be competing against each other. As there should only be the one 100+ inter-league cup for non-league teams.

Competing for the same type of sponsors, and twice as many weekends being taken up by cup football instead of league fixtures isn't helping anyone.

I was getting sick of the bitchin between the 2 factions. So was just trying to show how stupid it was becoming.

Neither cup is going away in the short term. So everyone from the committee's of both cups to the clubs and fans need to just get on with it and make the best of the situation.

Personally, unless the SJC becomes truly national and is accepted as such by the LL & HL it seems improbable it can survive long term.

Here's a scenario; in 10-15 years Talbot, Pollok, and some others are in the LL and SPFL. There is simply no way they can play in the SJC. Has anyone involved in its running looked that far ahead.

The SRCC is very poorly marketed and does not seem to have any prestige as the Lowlands premier cup, whose to blame for that.

Does the SJC Final get better crowds because of what fans perceive it to be. Last year you can't tell me a final against Yoker got Talbot fans more excited than a final against Bonnyrigg. So a majority of the fans weren't at Rugby Park for the football and only real football fans were at Westfield in Falkirk?

[FairWeatherFan]

2 hours ago, Shanner said:

I like the SOS and always look forward to it, but there's no denying that it isn't hitting anything like its potential right now. The reasons why are likely complex, numerous, and difficult to solve but the big one for me is that the LL simply doesn't have enough in the way of traditionally well-known and well-supported sides that fans are excited about playing. 

Luckily that is slowly improving with Linlithgow, Berwick Rangers, and Albion Rovers replacing a couple of more "modern" sides so we'll see how that goes, although there's always the suspicion that these sorts of sides would rather focus on getting promoted to L2 than genuinely bother their arses with any cup that doesn't hold the chance of a money spinner against a PL side. 

 

 

I think the toothpaste's out the tube regardless of what comes next. Greater access to the Scottish Cup has meant that fulfills the novelty factor that holds interest in the early rounds. I don't think any cup competition can touch that engagement until around the semis when a club can see the chance of winning something.

Not helped by the growing importance of league football over the last 20 years that saw the erosion of the regions, increase to 30 game seasons and a pyramid that ties it all together.  

An all-in SJC or newly minted national non-league cup won't change much. It might just hasten the decline as the 'modern' sides can compete on the pitch with the traditional clubs regardless of how they're perceived. If Drumchapel can get to the final of the SCC. They could do it in any other cup. The name on the trophy won't multiply their demand for tickets.

[jimbaxters]

12 hours ago, HorseyGhirl said:

Quite sad all this my cups better than your cup.

Thought we are all here for the football. So because you prefer the SJC over the SRCC and vice versa. You do all you can to diss the other. There is room for both trophies to grow.

One is regional and the other is national. They should not be competing against each other for our affections.

Just My Opinion Of Course.

I agree with everything you have said.

Spoiler

SJC! SJC! SJC!

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jimbaxters said:

I agree with everything you have said.

Glad I was sitting down when I read this.

[Guest MickGarvey]

Would people be more open to the SJC if those involved didnt appear to have a chip on their shoulder or come across like Scottish Football owes them something?

Historically was there such a grade called the juniors which used to be quite good and entertaining, of course, people are more than willing to ram it down peoples throats. In my humble opinion, junior football lost its magic when it traded Central and Ayrshire for West Region. Now its 2023 and this is the change which you need to embrace like it or lump it. West Park United have as much a right to be here as Kirkintilloch Rob Roy and Kilsyth Rangers.

I agree that a non league Scottish Cup (similar to the FA trophy) is absolutely required but reading this particular forum it would appear that a lot of former junior clubs supporters are very passive aggressive about how important the SJC is. Has Pollok FC's return to the SJC been motivated by the romance of the cup, maybe. But maybe the financial benefits play a part, regardless of how much people want to shout about those flocking back.

I wonder how JimBaxters would feel if Ayr United fans displayed the same behaviours towards Auchinleck Talbot on their participation in the Scottish Cup as people on this forum appear to show for the Lowland League/Tier 5 clubs not formally of the Juniors. 

I think a South Challenge Cup and a SFA Trophy (entry tier 5 and under) can co-exist.

[Shanner]

6 minutes ago, MickGarvey said:

Would people be more open to the SJC if those involved didnt appear to have a chip on their shoulder or come across like Scottish Football owes them something?

Historically was there such a grade called the juniors which used to be quite good and entertaining, of course, people are more than willing to ram it down peoples throats. In my humble opinion, junior football lost its magic when it traded Central and Ayrshire for West Region. Now its 2023 and this is the change which you need to embrace like it or lump it. West Park United have as much a right to be here as Kirkintilloch Rob Roy and Kilsyth Rangers.

I agree that a non league Scottish Cup (similar to the FA trophy) is absolutely required but reading this particular forum it would appear that a lot of former junior clubs supporters are very passive aggressive about how important the SJC is. Has Pollok FC's return to the SJC been motivated by the romance of the cup, maybe. But maybe the financial benefits play a part, regardless of how much people want to shout about those flocking back.

I wonder how JimBaxters would feel if Ayr United fans displayed the same behaviours towards Auchinleck Talbot on their participation in the Scottish Cup as people on this forum appear to show for the Lowland League/Tier 5 clubs not formally of the Juniors. 

I think a South Challenge Cup and a SFA Trophy (entry tier 5 and under) can co-exist.

A long winded straw man argument. 

[Jamie92]

Drop the Junior tag and clubs from the Lowland, East and South would be interested. Clubs from them leagues/regions don’t want to be associated with the juniors. Except Camelon, but their owners are dodgy anyhow. 

[Shanner]

13 minutes ago, Jamie92 said:

Drop the Junior tag and clubs from the Lowland, East and South would be interested. Clubs from them leagues/regions don’t want to be associated with the juniors. Except Camelon, but their owners are dodgy anyhow. 

Have any clubs expressed this sentiment?

[Guest MickGarvey]

40 minutes ago, Shanner said:

A long winded straw man argument. 

Prove it.