LIVIFOREVER Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 39 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: I don't think he's a dinosaur. He won promotions in 2017 and 2021 and got one of the plum jobs in the lower reaches of the EFL in 2021. He's clearly not a dreadful coach, and to imply he's somehow been left behind by the sport in three years would need some explanation. I think he's just another example of how we attach too much of the credit for their success and failure to coaches individually. Adams has had success at well-run clubs at good times. He's done a good job at three different clubs. He's not an idiot. But one bad job can lead to a spiral where coaches panic and take jobs they shouldn't take. A job at a bad club (as in poorly run) is a poisoned chalice. Bradford went badly, but that was his first really bad job, and he should have waited for somethin better rather than going back to Morecambe, who have had well-publicised off-field problems. Realising his mistake, he jumps ship to another job which, by his own admission, he hadn't checked out. It's a classic manager spiral where a bad spell leads to poor decisions made in desparation. I think John Hughes is another example of this. Taking bad jobs makes a coach look shite. Same as playing in a bad team can make a player look shite. Adams' behaviour seems to be that of a strange man. But I don't think he's as bad a coach as he looks at the moment. There's plenty evidence he's quite a good one. He just seems to be in the middle of sabotaging his own career. That's one way to look at it, my interpretation is Hughes did ok when inheriting a good team, and got shown up as how shite he really is once he had to build his own team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) 14 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said: That's one way to look at it, my interpretation is Hughes did ok when inheriting a good team, and got shown up as how shite he really is once he had to build his own team. That's the point. Coaches on the way up inherit good situations. Coaches on the rebound often take on jobs that are mountains to climb. I think his time at ICT is pretty harshly judged, tbh. After that, he moved on to fire-fighting jobs. You then end up with the coach who has had two bad jobs taking a third bad job because it's all he can get. And when he fails in that job, when the odds were against him from the start, he's now finished. A dud. A dinosaur. Clueless. and the evidence is that he's done badly. Look at how many coaches with good records elsewhere had their careers put into a nosedive by being at Hibs post-Mowbray. That was a bad club, and a number of coaches never really recovered from being there. Colin Calderwood was a well-rated young coach with a good rep. After Hibs he wasn't seen again until a firefighting job at Cambridge years later. It obviously didn't go that well, and now he'd really struggle to get a number one job.. Hibs did that. He panicked after getting emptied at Forest, took a job at a bad club, and his spiral began. The reality usually is that with a bit more luck the failing coach would be prospering at a better-run club in a job where it's easier to do well. Coaches on the way up can enjoy the opposite. Succeeding at a well-run club opens the door to another good situation etc. Edited January 22 by VincentGuerin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Diamond For Me Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Yes, I think that's broadly true. You also get situations where a club is in such a shambles that expectations are so low that even basic professional competence would be a major improvement, like McCall at Clyde. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sortmeout Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 12 hours ago, GAD said: He's just not good enough for this level anymore. At 48 he's already a dinosaur and would be better off back bobbing around League 1 and 2 down south, the Ross County job is far too big for him now. He's clearly angling for a sacking and payoff as he's no idea how to fix it and the players more than likely hate him. Stinks of Stubbs at St Mirren. I wouldn’t say he isn’t good enough. I know it’s been a disastrous start and obviously he’s desperate to get sacked but if he is here for 18 months (extremely doubtful) and gets the chance to bring his own players in then you might see him doing ok. The training ground and dressing room must be a strange place to be just now and I don’t mean just because DA is a bit unhinged. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said: That's the point. Coaches on the way up inherit good situations. Coaches on the rebound often take on jobs that are mountains to climb. I think his time at ICT is pretty harshly judged, tbh. After that, he moved on to fire-fighting jobs. You then end up with the coach who has had two bad jobs taking a third bad job because it's all he can get. And when he fails in that job, when the odds were against him from the start, he's now finished. A dud. A dinosaur. Clueless. and the evidence is that he's done badly. Look at how many coaches with good records elsewhere had their careers put into a nosedive by being at Hibs post-Mowbray. That was a bad club, and a number of coaches never really recovered from being there. Colin Calderwood was a well-rated young coach with a good rep. After Hibs he wasn't seen again until a firefighting job at Cambridge years later. It obviously didn't go that well, and now he'd really struggle to get a number one job.. Hibs did that. He panicked after getting emptied at Forest, took a job at a bad club, and his spiral began. The reality usually is that with a bit more luck the failing coach would be prospering at a better-run club in a job where it's easier to do well. Coaches on the way up can enjoy the opposite. Succeeding at a well-run club opens the door to another good situation etc. Or they were doing well and being well run till Hughes came in and fucked them. Sure he got a lot of overpaid players at Falkirk, and they were stuck with duds on big wages because of Hughes signing them. At Caley he inherited a very good set of players, some left and Hughes brought his own players in and things went pair shaped. Funny how many teams were on a downward spiral by the time Hughes left them, and went to shit a year of two after. Surely the sign of a good manager is being able to build a good team, not just being able to do well when inheriting good players from the previous manager. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 13 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said: Or they were doing well and being well run till Hughes came in and fucked them. Sure he got a lot of overpaid players at Falkirk, and they were stuck with duds on big wages because of Hughes signing them. At Caley he inherited a very good set of players, some left and Hughes brought his own players in and things went pair shaped. Funny how many teams were on a downward spiral by the time Hughes left them, and went to shit a year of two after. Surely the sign of a good manager is being able to build a good team, not just being able to do well when inheriting good players from the previous manager. Running well till Hughes fucked them? I think if you look at a reign that involved winning one cup, losing another final on penalties, finishing third, fith, and seventh in the league as anything other than spectacular success, then you're coming at it with an agenda. Unless you reckon any coach could have done that? Even when things went "wrong" (seventh!), the league had become harder. 2013/14 Hearts were in admin and Hibs had imploded to the point of relegation, while Rangers were gone. 2014/15 there was no Hearts, Hibs, Rangers in the league. It was an opportunity for the other clubs. By Hughes' last season at ICT Hearts had come back with a good budget and maintaining a top three or four finish was extremely unlikely. And even then, is finishing seventh and reaching the quarters of both cups a disaster for ICT? Or is it regression to the mean? How long was it feasible for ICT to go on finishing at the top end of the league? Would the first coach to end up outside the top six have been a failure regardless of who he was? That sounds unreasonable to me. St Mirren will inevitably end up back in the bottom six this season or next or the one after. Will their coach at the time be a failure? This is what I mean about how folk judge coaches. It doesn't make sense. Edited January 23 by VincentGuerin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 John hughes is a fanny. Pass it on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorOnopko Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 DA pre-match today: "we've got players making their debuts for the first time" "you can't deal with the past" "football's simplistic". -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Peil Posted February 6 Popular Post Share Posted February 6 Wonder if @2426255still thinks he's a misunderstood, underappreciated footballing genius 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorbalsMags Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Some of the takes in this thread ageing like finest milk 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Least he's honest. Honestly shite. Am I right?!?! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Staggie Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 12 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: Least he's honest. Honestly shite. Am I right?!?! At least the seal pup is cute. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Where's Numbers? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 It's not me, it's you. Very strong, 'Ross County were shite before I joined, you can't blame me.' Vibes. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/68224265 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superwell87 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 13 minutes ago, johnnydun said: It's not me, it's you. Very strong, 'Ross County were shite before I joined, you can't blame me.' Vibes. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/68224265 The interview (and look) of a man who knows he is fooked, one way or the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passionate Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 16 minutes ago, johnnydun said: It's not me, it's you. Very strong, 'Ross County were shite before I joined, you can't blame me.' Vibes. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/68224265 Get him to f**k, losing 5 zip to Motherwell is a sackable offence in itself, never mind the post match interviews, an absolute fud... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) On 17/12/2023 at 12:19, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said: Well he’ll not only get one reaction. He’ll get two. One from his team, which will go one of two ways. Either it will galvanise them into playing better, or the more likely outcome is that they’ll think he’s a massive p***k and can go f**k himself. Comparisons with Fergie and Man Utd are hilarious. Fergie’s Man Utd team were up to a siege. Ross Co are not. The other reaction he’ll get is the one from every other team in the league. I hope every team puts in that extra little bit of effort to spank them. The guy is an arrogant arsehole and no mistake. Ross Co is a team I’ve never been one way or another about. However as long as this tool is in charge of them, I hope they get gubbed every week. He called it. Edited February 7 by Ray Patterson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Has anyone ever full named a club in a positive manner? Nobody ever says X football club were great champions 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 3 minutes ago, parsforlife said: Has anyone ever full named a club in a positive manner? Nobody ever says X football club were great champions I see you haven't heard of Hibernian Football Club Club 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 7 minutes ago, superwell87 said: The interview (and look) of a man who knows he is fooked, one way or the other. The thing is, it's complete word salad - nothing he says makes any sense, even by accident. It's as if ChatGPT came up with it. He'll currently be staring out the bus window at the Drumochter Pass, contemplating how to get a payoff and back to the seaside down south. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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