Lewis Ferguson

[gannonball]

18 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

It is that but it doesn't seem to stop you.

The total lack of self awareness from him tickled me tbh.

[A Diamond For Me]

1 hour ago, Butters Scotch said:

I'm posting across a range of football forums about various topics as i love discussing anything football related.

I'm stuck in hospital at the minute hence why i'm posting a lot to kill time so trust me, I've got better things to do in life about who is starting for Scotland.

I would like him to be given a proper run in the team, not just play for a bit here and there off the bench mainly, at least we can see how good he is for the team

 

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that and hope you get well soon.

Not wishing to hassle you while you're not well, but you say you use the "eye test" as stats can be read any way you like... in what sense is an "eye test" more objective?  Nothing could be more subjective than "Oh, I just think he's had a good game" or "Hm, not doing it for me."  It's unfalsifiable, so hard to build a meaningful argument on.

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, gannonball said:

The total lack of self awareness from him tickled me tbh.

Go and quote me talking like that then, ill wait.

[gannonball]

13 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

Go and quote me talking like that then, ill wait.

Marvelous 

[ahemps]

17 hours ago, Butters Scotch said:

I don't think Juve are the same force as they once was and Italian teams tend to not have the money to go out and buy superstars. If you watch Bologna enough then you will see how exciting they are as a team and how Ferguson is such a key cog to the way they attack and defend so I think he would be solid signing for them.

(Calafiori is a very good player also may I add but definitely has a few mistakes in him!)

20 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Bologna are 1 place and 4 points behind Juventus - it's not like he'd be going from Frosinone or some relegation threatened non-entity.

Right now of course they are not but Juventus will see where they are today as a low point and Bologna will see where they are as almost their peak (Bologna haven't qualified for Europe in 24years). Juventus want to be competing for the Serie A and getting to CL finals (Inter were there last year so Italian clubs will still expect to be there every so often)

I would love to be proven wrong and Ferguson went to Juventus and improved their starting 11 but I am not sure he is at the level Juventus want to get too.

Of course he will want to make the move and test himself and with a manager who knows and seems to get the best of him but I think he is better staying put and actually playing CL with Bologna or if he needs to move then getting a slightly bigger club like Lazio, Napoli or Roma if he stays in Italy or a move to Brentford or similar like Hickey would be better for him to continue getting game time.

[Bing.McCrosby]

6 minutes ago, gannonball said:

Marvelous 

I may be wrong but I seem to remember us going at each other in the past and then calling a truce your the guy who doesn't support Scotland yeah?

Good stop with the grammar tho

[2426255]

1 minute ago, ahemps said:

Right now of course they are not but Juventus will see where they are today as a low point and Bologna will see where they are as almost their peak (Bologna haven't qualified for Europe in 24years). Juventus want to be competing for the Serie A and getting to CL finals (Inter were there last year so Italian clubs will still expect to be there every so often)

I would love to be proven wrong and Ferguson went to Juventus and improved their starting 11 but I am not sure he is at the level Juventus want to get too.

Of course he will want to make the move and test himself and with a manager who knows and seems to get the best of him but I think he is better staying put and actually playing CL with Bologna or if he needs to move then getting a slightly bigger club like Lazio, Napoli or Roma if he stays in Italy or a move to Brentford or similar like Hickey would be better for him to continue getting game time.

I think that's a decent way to look at it. If Ferguson were to move to the English Premier League, what level of team would be interested in him? Personally I don't think any of those aiming for top-6 including Chelsea, Man Utd, Villa and Newcastle. I think just below that is more accurate, so probably a team like Brentford were when Hickey moved there.

For me it would come from teams that needed a midfielder like Ferguson from the likes of Brighton, West Ham and Wolves.

[allyo]

3 hours ago, Butters Scotch said:

There is more to life than football, I couldn't really care either way but I'm happy to push my opinion regarding LF who i think would enhance the team. Surely thats what the forum is about so no need to get all hostile which some people are like for whatever strange reason

Couldn't agree more. Too many people on these forums appear determined to turn every minor disagreement into a slagging match.

For the record our disagreement seems to be that you think Lewis Ferguson should be starting in Scotland's midfield. Whereas I think he is one of 7 vying for a starting place, and I'd currently put him 6th. He's up against a lot of quality. Hardly an irreconcilable difference. 

All the best.

[gannonball]

24 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

I may be wrong but I seem to remember us going at each other in the past and then calling a truce your the guy who doesn't support Scotland yeah?

Good stop with the grammar tho

I tend to not really 'fall out' with people much on here, even less so in the TA section. You seem to be quite the opposite by being  unnecessarily belligerent when people just want to discuss/debate. You're not alone doing this though, in this part of the forum especially.

Edited April 10 by gannonball

[2426255]

Boys, this thread is getting derailed. Can we get back on track if that's okay with everyone. Let's put the petty disagreements to one side and move the debate on. It's only a bit of fun - No need to take things so seriously, take a break, come back relaxed, refreshed and refocused. @Bing.McCrosby 

Edited April 10 by 2426255

[Butters Scotch]

2 hours ago, A Diamond For Me said:

 

I'm sorry to hear that and hope you get well soon.

Not wishing to hassle you while you're not well, but you say you use the "eye test" as stats can be read any way you like... in what sense is an "eye test" more objective?  Nothing could be more subjective than "Oh, I just think he's had a good game" or "Hm, not doing it for me."  It's unfalsifiable, so hard to build a meaningful argument on.

Thanks man.

In regards to the stats comment, don't think i articulated that very well.

I guess the eye test isn't more objective but you definitely need a combination of both to understand a player. Numberwang's comments seem to be very stat based that is primarily based on playing for Scotland where he hasn't had the same opportunities as a Mcginn/McT/McGregor/Gilmour etc. 

Coming off the bench for half hour in a friendly for example is not enough time to show what you can do, any player will need a run of games playing 90 minutes with the 10 other best players to really see what he is made of. Therein lies the issue is that where you can play him and i've mentioned a few ideas earlier in the thread that I personally think will bring about better performances but i'll reiterate, this is just my opinion. 

My viewpoint on Ferguson comes from watching a lot of his games on TNT sports and i've watched a few videos on youtube that breaks down his analytical stats etc. One of these videos is below:

 

[Butters Scotch]

57 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I think that's a decent way to look at it. If Ferguson were to move to the English Premier League, what level of team would be interested in him? Personally I don't think any of those aiming for top-6 including Chelsea, Man Utd, Villa and Newcastle. I think just below that is more accurate, so probably a team like Brentford were when Hickey moved there.

For me it would come from teams that needed a midfielder like Ferguson from the likes of Brighton, West Ham and Wolves.

I would rather he stayed in Italy as he is settled in the league, tactically astute and a few of the big teams seem to appreciate him and he would be playing regularly in the CL.

I doubt any of the top four teams will take him as don't believe he is at that level but think he would do well at a Villa, Newcastle or West Ham type team if he were to move

[Butters Scotch]

54 minutes ago, allyo said:

Couldn't agree more. Too many people on these forums appear determined to turn every minor disagreement into a slagging match.

For the record our disagreement seems to be that you think Lewis Ferguson should be starting in Scotland's midfield. Whereas I think he is one of 7 vying for a starting place, and I'd currently put him 6th. He's up against a lot of quality. Hardly an irreconcilable difference. 

All the best.

Yeah totally agree, he's up against a lot of good competition so you would likely need to adapt the formation if he were to get in or replace an injured player. 

I would love for Clarke to try something slightly different as we are becoming a bit predictable but accept nothing aint gonna change before the Euros anyway and just hope we don't get turned over because teams know how to play against us

[Butters Scotch]

46 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Boys, this thread is getting derailed. Can we get back on track if that's okay with everyone. Let's put the petty disagreements to one side and move the debate on. It's only a bit of fun - No need to take things so seriously, take a break, come back relaxed, refreshed and refocused. @Bing.McCrosby 

You're one of the biggest derailers on here so you have a nerve lol

Edited April 10 by Butters Scotch
.

[ahemps]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

I think that's a decent way to look at it. If Ferguson were to move to the English Premier League, what level of team would be interested in him? Personally I don't think any of those aiming for top-6 including Chelsea, Man Utd, Villa and Newcastle. I think just below that is more accurate, so probably a team like Brentford were when Hickey moved there.

For me it would come from teams that needed a midfielder like Ferguson from the likes of Brighton, West Ham and Wolves.

I think getting to the highest level a player can while still playing is the ideal scenario.

All players want to get to the top clubs and/or the best wages they can. From a fans point of view it is to see them play. A move to Juventus that sees him be a fringe player or if they don't get to where they want he might be a bit of a fall guy (see McTominay at times with Utd fans). I would hope that didn't happen but is Ferguson better than Aaron Ramsey was when he went there?

To contradict my view I will be honest and say I didn't see Robertson being the success he became. I thought he was a really good player who didn't deserve to go down with Hull and would find a decent mid table EPL club. Never thought he would get to the heights he did though so it can work out by aiming for the top and seeing what happens.

[2426255]

14 minutes ago, ahemps said:

I think getting to the highest level a player can while still playing is the ideal scenario.

All players want to get to the top clubs and/or the best wages they can. From a fans point of view it is to see them play. A move to Juventus that sees him be a fringe player or if they don't get to where they want he might be a bit of a fall guy (see McTominay at times with Utd fans). I would hope that didn't happen but is Ferguson better than Aaron Ramsey was when he went there?

To contradict my view I will be honest and say I didn't see Robertson being the success he became. I thought he was a really good player who didn't deserve to go down with Hull and would find a decent mid table EPL club. Never thought he would get to the heights he did though so it can work out by aiming for the top and seeing what happens.

I think most fans would like to see Lewis Ferguson go to Juventus purely so we can say we've got a player at Juventus. If he went to a West Ham or the like then I don't think it has the same appeal.

From the player point of view I think it's just about game-time. What's the highest level Ferguson can reach while remaining an important part of his club team. If that's Inter, Juventus or say Aston Villa then go there and if it's West Ham or Brentford then go there. He still has the time to make one more intermediate step in his career.

[Bing.McCrosby]

4 hours ago, gannonball said:

I tend to not really 'fall out' with people much on here, even less so in the TA section. You seem to be quite the opposite by being  unnecessarily belligerent when people just want to discuss/debate. You're not alone doing this though, in this part of the forum especially.

I think perhaps your misinterpretating or reading someone else's posts.

You came on the thread and had 2 digs at me. And I did not retaliate, so perhaps time for a wee look in the mirror.

[RandomGuy.]

He's being linked with Napoli, Juventus, AC Milan, Newcastle and Aston Villa, currently, FWIW.

[2426255]

16 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

He's being linked with Napoli, Juventus, AC Milan, Newcastle and Aston Villa, currently, FWIW.

What is that worth? who's linking him? his agent, the media? We'll see if and when he makes a move.

It's an extensive list historically of transfers that never were. Robertson was linked with Real Madrid. McTominay and Patterson with Bayern Munich. Hickey with Manchester City. McGinn and Robbie McCrorie with Manchester Utd. Tierney with ahem Celtic to name a few off the top of my heid. 

[Butters Scotch]

8 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

What is that worth? who's linking him? his agent, the media? We'll see if and when he makes a move.

It's an extensive list historically of transfers that never were. Robertson was linked with Real Madrid. McTominay and Patterson with Bayern Munich. Hickey with Manchester City. McGinn and Robbie McCrorie with Manchester Utd. Tierney with ahem Celtic to name a few off the top of my heid. 

Well technically being linked with clubs ain't worth anything unless there is a concrete bid or someone reliable like a fabrizio romano tweeting about potential transfers but it's a bit of fun to talk about