Lewis Ferguson

[Butters Scotch]

12 hours ago, 2426255 said:

That's basically how I see it. Shame for Fergie and hurts our depth, but not in my top XI for players I don't want to miss the tournament. @Butters Scotch will be devastated.

He would of got f**k all minutes anyway, maybe 10 minutes here or there and Clarke would probably put Mclean or Ryan Jack on before him. 

Under Clarke, I can't see him being a starter until McGregor starts to fade in the next couple of years, it'll be the same predictable team (barring striker/CB) for 'continuity' reasons. 

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, BB_Bino said:

As someone who comes from a West Brom supporting family, and supporters them as my English side, this is incredibly harsh on Phillips. His career has sadly been hampered by injuries and he is in fact just coming back from another one. I have no doubt if he had steered clear of them, he would have played at a higher level than he has and would have and would have picked up a lot more Scotland caps, which he spoke about previously of being frustrated that he was only able to represent the country on 20 (from memory) occasions and it being during a relatively bleak time for the nation.

That might all be true, but he did have those injuries and he didn't have a good Scotland career.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Phillips wasn't great. He was probably roughly of a level of the likes of Nisbet, Brown or even Ross Stewart though. It's not like players of that standard aren't getting occasional caps. It's probably more that we play a system that doesn't really call for wingers. Can Armstrong play wing back? I've not seen enough of him to know. If he can't then his chances of getting a look in for Scotland are limited. I'm not sure Philips, who played more as a forward for Scotland, is a great comparison though. Bannon is a better one though he was / is more central than Armstrong.

Armstrong plays wing-back a fair bit for us, but he's not necessarily that great defensively - not that it's an issue for some of the others we've used there. He's probably just a wee bit short of the level required for this Scotland team though - I have no doubt Clarke would love him as a player in terms of his attitude and he does have ability, but he's a very good Premiership attacker and that's probably it.

[PrestersKTID]

3 hours ago, MarkoRaj said:

Is Danny Armstrong likely to get a big move? Be interested to see if he could cut it at a higher level. 

We've shown a lack of options out wide when we've moved to a midfield 4, I wouldn't be too annoyed to see Armstrong in the next squad

He probably should be due one. I'd love to keep him but we've a terrible record in selling players when we should for max profit.

Armstrong's issue for me is his lack of straight line pace. With ball at his feet he's able to beat most and get away from them but without the ball he's pretty slow. Chasing back, he puts the effort in but rarely catches up to his man. 

His numbers for us are great though. 23 goals and 26 assists in 113 games. Plenty more goal involvements, his delivery is superb, good composure.

I'd love him to get a call up, If the squad goes to 26 it makes even more sense but maybe Clarke will go back to Fraser if he wants a wide player.

[RandomGuy.]

Kilmarnock are built to get the most out of Armstrong IMO. Not built around him as there's other threats but built so the side players see a lot of the ball high up the park and put balls in. 

I'm not sure how Scotland play, particularly how I expect the style to be in the group stage, would suit him.

[No_Problemo]

I don’t even think there’s a debate if we replace Ferguson with an attacking midfielder - I can’t see how anyone else makes any kind of sense in front of Ryan Fraser. 

[craigkillie]

I would have gone for Fraser or some similar attacking option as part of our expanded 26 even if Ferguson had been available. The issues at RWB should also point towards bringing him in given it's a position he's played for us before in this system. I think we still want another attacking player to replace Ferguson though (assuming the increase to 26 is confirmed).

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, No_Problemo said:

I don’t even think there’s a debate if we replace Ferguson with an attacking midfielder - I can’t see how anyone else makes any kind of sense in front of Ryan Fraser. 

 

41 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I would have gone for Fraser or some similar attacking option as part of our expanded 26 even if Ferguson had been available. The issues at RWB should also point towards bringing him in given it's a position he's played for us before in this system. I think we still want another attacking player to replace Ferguson though (assuming the increase to 26 is confirmed).

I'm not saying we shouldn't potentially call up Ryan Fraser, Craig's comments make a lot of sense, but there's a lot of this smacks of the more he doesn't play the better he apparently gets. I've just sat watching him not get off the bench for Southamption tonight. He's in and out of their side and it's two years since he contributed anything internationally. He should be part of a conversation if the squads move to 26 but I don't think he is if they stay at 23.

[No_Problemo]

15 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't potentially call up Ryan Fraser, Craig's comments make a lot of sense, but there's a lot of this smacks of the more he doesn't play the better he apparently gets. I've just sat watching him not get off the bench for Southamption tonight. He's in and out of their side and it's two years since he contributed anything internationally. He should be part of a conversation if the squads move to 26 but I don't think he is if they stay at 23.

It is very rare for him not to appear for Southampton - when games are tight he generally always comes on if not starting. There was a BBC podcast today about the Southampton players which is worth a listen. 

I can’t see anyone else that offers what he does to replace Ferguson in the 23. He seems to be impactful as an impact win especially, and we know he has worked well with Dykes previously. 

We have no other attacking players that can provide an injection of pace and directness across the forward positions. He can also come on at RWB to add to our attacking options if we are losing, or come on higher up the park to help us play on the counter if we are winning. He also allows us to change system to incorporate wide players if necessary. 

[Alan Twelve]

Freaser has been, on the whole, a very good player for Scotland, I think. He's made a real impact off the bench in the past - was it against Israel in the Nations League where their fullbacks had kept our fullbacks quiet all night, Fraser comes on, gives us some extra attacking width, and we almost immediately get a goal from a cross from the RWB (possibly O'Donnell - memory is vague).

[JS_FFC]

I think it’ll be Fraser, but another couple of blasts from the past to mention are Tom Cairney and Matt Richie. Ritchie is incredibly unlikely because he de facto retired six years ago (asked not to be considered for the “foreseeable future” after moving to Newcastle because he was travelling down to the south coast to see his kids during international breaks). He also hasn’t played much this season but has played both wing and RB in the past so I wouldn’t be totally opposed to giving him a call up for the friendlies to have a look.

 

Cairney makes more sense though as a Ferguson replacement. Decent minutes for Fulham this year and he was in the papers in January saying he was hoping for a recall. 

[craigkillie]

21 minutes ago, Alan Twelve said:

Freaser has been, on the whole, a very good player for Scotland, I think. He's made a real impact off the bench in the past - was it against Israel in the Nations League where their fullbacks had kept our fullbacks quiet all night, Fraser comes on, gives us some extra attacking width, and we almost immediately get a goal from a cross from the RWB (possibly O'Donnell - memory is vague).

I was watching the Ukraine "away" highlights from the last Nations League campaign and had forgotten that he started that game alongside Dykes in attack. It wasn't that long ago. He also started that Turkey friendly in November 2022.

[Gordopolis]

I think that it has to be Fraser, for all the reasons stated. 

He's tried, tested, albeit - unfortunately - tainted, but the former two things, plus his positional versatility, put him ahead of any other candidate. And all that is compounded by our manager's general preference for going with known quantities.

Edited April 16 by Gordopolis

[Butters Scotch]

Anyone that doesn't agree to Fraser being selected now or even selected as part of the original squad is mental considering the lack of options we have. He's the one of a very few players that can turn a game due to his pace and acceleration.

Clarke needs to swallow his pride and get him on the plane. 

[allyo]

I think "mental" might be going a bit far. Maybe looking for a bite? 

I dont think directly replacing Ferguson (assuming he doesn't make it) is necessarily the priority. He was in the squad for his quality but the reason he wasnt starting was the amount of good players we have in similar positions.

Fraser seems like a good option. If Doak was fit i might give him a go. Cairney is a good player but more similar to what we already have. If we were to lose another midfielder he might come into it.

I see Forrest is getting some time with Celtic. Probably too late for him though.

[Butters Scotch]

4 minutes ago, allyo said:

I think "mental" might be going a bit far. Maybe looking for a bite? 

I dont think directly replacing Ferguson (assuming he doesn't make it) is necessarily the priority. He was in the squad for his quality but the reason he wasnt starting was the amount of good players we have in similar positions.

Fraser seems like a good option. If Doak was fit i might give him a go. Cairney is a good player but more similar to what we already have. If we were to lose another midfielder he might come into it.

I see Forrest is getting some time with Celtic. Probably too late for him though.

If not mental then very close to it.

We are desperate for a player like him in this squad who has bags of pace and Clarke won't ever go with Doak now since he hasn't selected him against relative minnows in friendly games so it leaves no other option. 

Forrest might be a shout (not before Fraser) but is he actually performing well again? 

Wouldnt mind Cairney as he is a good CM but he will end up as a squad filler. 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

11 hours ago, No_Problemo said:

It is very rare for him not to appear for Southampton - when games are tight he generally always comes on if not starting. There was a BBC podcast today about the Southampton players which is worth a listen. 

I can’t see anyone else that offers what he does to replace Ferguson in the 23. He seems to be impactful as an impact win especially, and we know he has worked well with Dykes previously. 

We have no other attacking players that can provide an injection of pace and directness across the forward positions. He can also come on at RWB to add to our attacking options if we are losing, or come on higher up the park to help us play on the counter if we are winning. He also allows us to change system to incorporate wide players if necessary. 

Yeah, I get all that and don't particularly disagree with any of it. Fraser's done well for us in the past, has done ok for Southampton and is getting as much game time as a few of our squad and he undeniably offers something. His candidacy for Germany probably depends on how much his relationship with Clarke actually has been repaired but as @2426255 has pointed out previously he's been in squads since that initial spat.

I just think the whole "can't be anyone but Fraser" clamour is being a fed a lot by a narrative that sees him get better the less we see of him. Fact remains in an admittedly good Southampton side he's starting about half the games and less often than Stuart Armstrong and Che Adams in the same side. He's not a defender and whilst his ability to cover right wing back in an emergency is another string to his bow, it's not really a reason to take him. If Hickey and Patterson don't make it they'll be replaced by Ralston and probably McCrorie but maybe Johnston (both of whom can also cover midfield incidentally). As a direct replacement for Ferguson he's a good candidate (as are Cairney and Gauld but the former hasn't been seen for far longer than Fraser and the latter appears completely off the Clarke radar). However, if we presume for the moment that squads stick at 23 and that everybody else other than Ferguson makes it, then I can see Clarke just using that extra space to take one of Taylor, Souttar (assuming Cooper makes it directly, other way round if not) or Jack. Or even a returning Jacob Brown. He has guys like Kenny McLean that he trusts to play midfield if he needs bodies, and potentially Jack. I don't think it's a given that Ferguson gets replaced by another attacking midfielder in a 23 man squad.

Of course if squads go to 26, or the likes of Hanley doesn't make it, then the goalposts move.

 

[allyo]

58 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

If not mental then very close to it.

We are desperate for a player like him in this squad who has bags of pace and Clarke won't ever go with Doak now since he hasn't selected him against relative minnows in friendly games so it leaves no other option. 

Forrest might be a shout (not before Fraser) but is he actually performing well again? 

Wouldnt mind Cairney as he is a good CM but he will end up as a squad filler. 

 

Don't disagree with much if this (apart from the nearly mental part), but I wouldn't completely rule out Doak. He wasn't fit for the friendlies against minnows and he might be for the Euros. And from memory I think Patterson, Gilmour and Turnbull were all uncapped when selected for the last (albeit extended) squad.

If he's hanging about Liverpool squads he wont be overawed. Appreciate its a long shot and a bit of a wildcard, but if he even got the odd substitute appearance for Liverpool before the end of the season I could see him as an option.

Edited April 17 by allyo

[albagubrath]

I'm just going to throw this name out there as I'm not particularly advocating for him (over say Fraser) but if you are looking for a player with broadly similar attributes to Ferguson (and I'm not sure we necessarily are) then Andy Irving is closer than Fraser. He had a bad injury last year but has come back into the Klagenfurt team in the last 3 or 4 months. I'll leave others to comment on whether he is playing well and what the standard is like in Austria but I presume he was doing well enough for West Ham to buy him last year.

[Skyline Drifter]

39 minutes ago, allyo said:

Don't disagree with much if this (apart from the nearly mental part), but I wouldn't completely rule out Doak. He wasn't fit for the friendlies against minnows and he might be for the Euros. And from memory I think Patterson, Gilmour and Turnbull were all uncapped when selected for the last (albeit extended) squad.

If he's hanging about Liverpool squads he wont be overawed. Appreciate its a long shot and a bit of a wildcard, but if he even got the odd substitute appearance for Liverpool before the end of the season I could see him as an option.

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2024/04/ben-doak-provides-latest-positive-injury-update-after-4-month-absence/

Running last week for the first time but he's nowhere near playing first team football. They're suggesting he might get an outing with the 18's in May. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that there's no chance an 18 year old with limited senior football experience is getting called up for the Euros when he hasn't played at all in six months.

Hickey's in the same boat of course but he's levels above Doak in terms of seniority and importance to the squad so will be given every chance inevitably. 

Edited April 17 by Skyline Drifter