Ginaro Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) 4 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: The fact they can't accurately capture the correct frame for the ball leaving a players foot is 100% fact, and you doubting it makes your entire post worthless. Cameras aren't quick enough to capture every single millisecond of play, so more often than not there will be a frame missing of the moment the ball is hit. When you're going to centimeters measurement wise it makes all the difference. It's why they're going to automated systems for offsides at the top level. Everything will be tracked and measured individually by 30+ cameras, so a model simulation of the game will take place a fraction of a second slower than the real thing, and they can use that model to show everyone's position the exact moment the ball leaves a players foot. We'll not be able to afford that, obviously, so we'll be stuck with a shite outdated VAR system and our refs can't even use the excuse its to help them get UEFA/FIFA gigs, as using a different system means they'll ruled out. The fact you think they judge offside when the ball leaves a players foot makes your entire post worthless and just confirms my point about fans being ignorant about the laws and VAR. You also just ignored the fact that the lines are made thicker in order to account for a margin of error. Your last sentence about referees who don't use the semi-automated system not being able to do UEFA/FIFA games just doesn't make sense, as almost all competitions (except Serie A and from next season La Liga and the Premier League with SAOT) using VAR have the same Hawkeye system as we use. Edited April 24 by Ginaro -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 5 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: The fact they can't accurately capture the correct frame for the ball leaving a players foot is 100% fact, and you doubting it makes your entire post worthless. Cameras aren't quick enough to capture every single millisecond of play, so more often than not there will be a frame missing of the moment the ball is hit. When you're going to centimeters measurement wise it makes all the difference. It's why they're going to automated systems for offsides at the top level. Everything will be tracked and measured individually by 30+ cameras, so a model simulation of the game will take place a fraction of a second slower than the real thing, and they can use that model to show everyone's position the exact moment the ball leaves a players foot. We'll not be able to afford that, obviously, so we'll be stuck with a shite outdated VAR system and our refs can't even use the excuse its to help them get UEFA/FIFA gigs, as using a different system means they'll ruled out. No they can't. It is exactly that, a statistical model. It doesn't have some magical ability to actually fill in the gaps in between the frames, there is still going to be some level of inaccuracy baked in to that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 57 minutes ago, Ginaro said: The fact you think they judge offside when the ball leaves a players foot makes your entire post worthless and just confirms my point about fans being ignorant about the laws and VAR. You also just ignored the fact that the lines are made thicker in order to account for a margin of error. The laws of the game are very clear that offside is about when the ball is "played or touched", which obviously by any sensible reading of the English language should be the moment it leaves a player's foot, head, knee, shoulder whatever. The fact that the practical process of VAR is different from that actually proves the point that it there is still imprecision in every offside decision. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, Ginaro said: The fact you think they judge offside when the ball leaves a players foot makes your entire post worthless and just confirms my point about fans being ignorant about the laws and VAR. You also just ignored the fact that the lines are made thicker in order to account for a margin of error. Your last sentence about referees who don't use the semi-automated system not being able to do UEFA/FIFA games just doesn't make sense, as almost all competitions (except Serie A and from next season La Liga and the Premier League with SAOT) using VAR have the same Hawkeye system as we use. Go on smarty pants, don’t leave us hanging. Tell us all how the VAR operator is supposed to capture the exact frame where the ball is played. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10menwent2mow Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 On 23/04/2024 at 09:16, craigkillie said: Because they only measure to the nearest hundredth or thousandth of a second and don't have the precision to measure smaller times/distances. So are we pretending that VAR is this accurate. There's no fucking chance that the variables as in when the ball is kicked and that the lines are accurate. Absolute nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 VAR is shite. Bin it. If we make enough noise as fans. Fans of bigger leagues will follow. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 On 22/04/2024 at 21:41, craigkillie said: I would argue it is mathematically impossible for two objects in continuous space to be absolutely in line with each other. They might be in the same place to the nearest centimetre, or to the nearest millimetre, or even to the nearest 100th of a millimetre, but if you continue to increase the precision you will always be able to separate them. https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/3328594/why-is-the-px-x-0-when-x-is-continuous Two points will always be in a line with each other. What are you blathering about 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 22 minutes ago, coprolite said: Two points will always be in a line with each other. What are you blathering about We're not just talking about forming a straight line from two points, we're talking about two players being in line with each other from an offside point of view (ie both an exactly equal distance from the goal-line). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 That fact that this discussion has entered the realms of probability in continuous systems with numbers being quoted to 3 decimal places confirms that VAR is shite and should be immediately placed in Baldovie Incinerator. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky1990 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I was relatively pro the concept of VAR when it was first introduced and think i was on the most optimistic side compared to most fans. But its shite. If anything, its getting worse. Get it to f**k. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezz Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I see that none of our esteemed whistlers have been selected for Euro 2024 duty after their involvement in continental and international competition was cited as one of the reasons we had to bring VAR in. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 7 hours ago, Ginaro said: The fact you think they judge offside when the ball leaves a players foot makes your entire post worthless and just confirms my point about fans being ignorant about the laws and VAR. You also just ignored the fact that the lines are made thicker in order to account for a margin of error. Your last sentence about referees who don't use the semi-automated system not being able to do UEFA/FIFA games just doesn't make sense, as almost all competitions (except Serie A and from next season La Liga and the Premier League with SAOT) using VAR have the same Hawkeye system as we use. 6 hours ago, craigkillie said: No they can't. It is exactly that, a statistical model. It doesn't have some magical ability to actually fill in the gaps in between the frames, there is still going to be some level of inaccuracy baked in to that. 6 hours ago, craigkillie said: The laws of the game are very clear that offside is about when the ball is "played or touched", which obviously by any sensible reading of the English language should be the moment it leaves a player's foot, head, knee, shoulder whatever. The fact that the practical process of VAR is different from that actually proves the point that it there is still imprecision in every offside decision. 4 hours ago, craigkillie said: We're not just talking about forming a straight line from two points, we're talking about two players being in line with each other from an offside point of view (ie both an exactly equal distance from the goal-line). In other words, the VAR system is pointless. What am I missing here, If it isn’t able to make accurate offside decisions why is it there? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainbowrising Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 This VAR level of accuracy thing - nearly demanding quantum physics levels of measurement - is BS. No one ever questioned a human beings ability to judge off side to that degree, including the exact moment when "the ball is played or touched". What VAR does do is show up where human error has occurred and corrects it. Completely? No, but on the whole, yes, it does. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 2 hours ago, kingjoey said: In other words, the VAR system is pointless. What am I missing here, If it isn’t able to make accurate offside decisions why is it there? It can probably make decisions more accurately than a human making it live, and this semi-automated version will be better than the version that requires someone to draw lines, but it is definitely not able to make decisions with 100% certainty despite claims to the contrary. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, rainbowrising said: This VAR level of accuracy thing - nearly demanding quantum physics levels of measurement - is BS. No one ever questioned a human beings ability to judge off side to that degree, including the exact moment when "the ball is played or touched". What VAR does do is show up where human error has occurred and corrects it. Completely? No, but on the whole, yes, it does. A linesman making a tight offside call as it happens in front of him isn’t the same thing as it being let go, a goal being scored, everyone celebrating, and then it eventually being overturned 3 minutes later because the attacker was a nipple offside. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibsFan Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 For the defeatists out there, if Sweden can do it - why can't we? 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 On 24/04/2024 at 19:18, dezz said: I see that none of our esteemed whistlers have been selected for Euro 2024 duty after their involvement in continental and international competition was cited as one of the reasons we had to bring VAR in. 11 hours ago, HibsFan said: For the defeatists out there, if Sweden can do it - why can't we? And in a lovely twist, Sweden will have refs in Germany Quote European football’s governing body has appointed 90 match officials, including refs and VAR teams, from across the continent to take charge of games at the tournament being held in Germany. As well as officials from the host country there will be representatives from several countries including England, Portugal, Romania, France, Italy, Switzerland, Sweden, Slovenia, Spain, Poland and Turkey. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Jimmy Thelin will come and save us all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sortmeout Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 On 22/04/2024 at 21:41, craigkillie said: I would argue it is mathematically impossible for two objects in continuous space to be absolutely in line with each other. They might be in the same place to the nearest centimetre, or to the nearest millimetre, or even to the nearest 100th of a millimetre, but if you continue to increase the precision you will always be able to separate them. https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/3328594/why-is-the-px-x-0-when-x-is-continuous This is the type of referee we all need to suffer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingswellsRed Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Where is the action from the fans owned clubs in Scotland? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.